Anybody have any ideas how nanotech is going to help with energy storage, besides stronger materials for flywheel energy storage systems, since the limitation of non hydrocarbon powered transport systems is the energy density of the onboard energy store. Also any ideas on the maximum energy density attainable with nanotech.
The main reason I ask is since the reserves of hydrocarbons are limited, and I like to ride motorcycles, I cannot see anything on the horizon that is lightweight and stores enough energy to be practicable on a motorcycle.
Mark. -- Hutch - Perth - W.A.
[ Robert Freitas Jr. has a chapter on energy storage in his book Nanomedicine. See for example http://www.nanomedicine.com/6.1.html . Buy a print edition; worth the money. -JimL ]
Mark Hutchison <markhu...@iprimus.com.au> wrote: >Hi, >Anybody have any ideas how nanotech is going to help with energy storage, >besides stronger materials for flywheel energy storage systems, since the >limitation of non hydrocarbon powered transport systems is the energy density >of the onboard energy store. Also any ideas on the maximum energy density >attainable with nanotech. >The main reason I ask is since the reserves of hydrocarbons are limited, and I >like to ride motorcycles, I cannot see anything on the horizon that is >lightweight and stores enough energy to be practicable on a motorcycle.
Hydrogen stored in nanotubes is supposed to be quite dense. Or, you can make hydrocarbons from hydrogen, and CO2. As you can get hydrogen from the water vapour in the air, and nanotech is likely to make solar panels better, then it can really help too.
Nanotech may also make flywheels a lot smaller, and potentially safer, so that in a crash for example, the flywheel container bursts, releasing lots of marble sized flywheel containers, that bounce around, and eventually discharge safely.
The motorcycle would also benefit from even early nanotech, if cheap enough. Not to mention the weight advantages possible in construction. Wheels may be reinforced better, and in the longer term, form themselves into holes in the road, or use piton like devices, for ultimate road-holding.
(See the book "Farewell horizontal")
-- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisi...@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------- ----- Prosperity and ruin issue from the power of the tongue. Therefore, guard yourself against thoughtless speech.
In article <t19jfu4iulg...@corp.supernews.com>, Ian Stirling <Inquisi...@I.am> [talking about energy storage for motorcycle use] wrote:
>As you can get hydrogen from the water vapour in the air, and nanotech >is likely to make solar panels better, then it can really help too.
Extraction of hydrogen from the air requires energy. If you're going to do that on-the-roll using the energy obtained from a solar panel, then it is more efficient to use the solar panel directly. Storage of energy needs to occur at a rate at least equal to its use.
>Nanotech may also make flywheels a lot smaller, and potentially safer, so >that in a crash for example, the flywheel container bursts, releasing lots >of marble sized flywheel containers, that bounce around, and eventually >discharge safely.
A flywheel can certainly act as an energy storage device but any dependence on kinetic energy is going to have to handle the dissipation of that energy. Remember that this flywhell has to be strong enough to handle sufficient charge to drive this machine for a couple of hours. While in normal use that energy dissipation is controlled over time, in an accident that dissipation may occur very rapidly in a mechanical object. The fact that there are thousands or millions of little pieces of flywheel simply means that there will be that many more holes in you. Even wrapping a flywheel in some type of diamondoid casing simply means that you have a very hard and very energetic object to handle in a very short time.
Ian Stirling <Inquisi...@I.am> writes: >Wheels may be reinforced better, and in the longer term, form themselves >into holes in the road, or use piton like devices, for ultimate road-holding.
How would this be different from studs? (Which some states/provinces limit to winter months, or forbid completely. Of course, nanotech has the potential for self-repairing roads....)
Billy Harvey <Billy.Har...@thrillseeker.net> wrote: >In article <t19jfu4iulg...@corp.supernews.com>, Ian Stirling ><Inquisi...@I.am> [talking about energy storage for motorcycle use] >wrote: >>As you can get hydrogen from the water vapour in the air, and nanotech >>is likely to make solar panels better, then it can really help too. >Extraction of hydrogen from the air requires energy. If you're going >to do that on-the-roll using the energy obtained from a solar panel, >then it is more efficient to use the solar panel directly. Storage of >energy needs to occur at a rate at least equal to its use.
Not on the roll, when parked up.
>>Nanotech may also make flywheels a lot smaller, and potentially safer, so >>that in a crash for example, the flywheel container bursts, releasing lots >>of marble sized flywheel containers, that bounce around, and eventually >>discharge safely. >A flywheel can certainly act as an energy storage device but any >dependence on kinetic energy is going to have to handle the >dissipation of that energy. Remember that this flywhell has to be >strong enough to handle sufficient charge to drive this machine for a >couple of hours. While in normal use that energy dissipation is
That was my idea, make it so that in a crash, at least most of the flywheels depart the scene, and bounce around, inside containment, rather than just letting go. Or maybe hover, though this has issues too.
-- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisi...@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------- ----- Prosperity and ruin issue from the power of the tongue. Therefore, guard yourself against thoughtless speech.
>>Wheels may be reinforced better, and in the longer term, form themselves >>into holes in the road, or use piton like devices, for ultimate road-holding.
> How would this be different from studs? (Which some states/provinces >limit to winter months, or forbid completely. Of course, nanotech has the >potential for self-repairing roads....)
Can you drive up walls with studs?
Plus, imagine smart suspension, that can see the terrain ahead, driving up and down staircase type terrain, without bumps.
-- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisi...@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------- ----- Windows 2000, software for next millenia. <latin pun alert> - Ian Stirling.
Mark Atwood <m...@pobox.com> wrote: >Ian Stirling <Inquisi...@i.am> writes:
>> Plus, imagine smart suspension, that can see the terrain ahead, >> driving up and down staircase type terrain, without bumps. >You've read _Snow Crash_, I see.
No, actually I was thinking of "Farewell Horizontal", by someone with J's and K's in the name, that I can't quite recall.
-- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisi...@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------- ----- <Squawk> Pieces of eight! <Squawk> Pieces of eight! <Squawk> Pieces of eight! <Squawk> Pieces of eight! <Squawk> Pieces of eight! <Squawk> Pieces of nine! <SYSTEM HALTED: parroty error!>
[ This is all related to nanotechnology how? Besides the topic drift, I was also going to reject this post because of the parroty error. -Jim "the humorless moderator" L ]
<frankglo...@delphi.com> wrote: >Of course, nanotech has the >potential for self-repairing roads....)
Understatement of the century?
I have a plot for a sci-fi story in which 'roads' are a major resource. The tar has been converted to assemblers and they provide the world's solar power, communication channels, underground transport facilities (everything from piped water and hydrocarbons to vacuum linear accelerator conduits for moving objects - up to and including people)...
.... and a computing facility composed of uncountable linked computing elements!
You can skim along the surface as well, safe skate boarding at 100 Km/hr without the skates :-)
On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, Ian Stirling wrote: > Hydrogen stored in nanotubes is supposed to be quite dense...
The adsorption of hydrogen gas into single-walled nanotubes has been studied using grand canonical Monte Carlo computer simulations. The results for U.S. Department of Energy showed SWNTs to be unsuitable.
If anyone has followed up hydrogen storage in organic/inorganic nanotubes practically, I would be grateful for any leads.
Ian Stirling <Inquisi...@i.am> writes: >>>Wheels may be reinforced better, and in the longer term, form themselves >>>into holes in the road, or use piton like devices, for ultimate road-holding.
>> How would this be different from studs? (Which some states/provinces >>limit to winter months, or forbid completely. Of course, nanotech has the >>potential for self-repairing roads....)
>Can you drive up walls with studs?
So you're saying that they'd not just depend on friction, but would (very rapidly, where wheels are involved) physically bond and let go?
>Plus, imagine smart suspension, that can see the terrain ahead, >driving up and down staircase type terrain, without bumps.
Okay, though depending on how bad you expect it to be, you'd still need the ground clearance of a giraffe. (Not saying you *couldn't,* though...)
Gary Williams <gwill...@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk> writes: >(everything from piped water and hydrocarbons to vacuum linear accelerator >conduits for moving objects - up to and including people)...
>..... and a computing facility composed of uncountable linked computing >elements!
>You can skim along the surface as well, safe skate boarding at 100 Km/hr >without the skates :-)
>'road' seems too small a word, somehow.
I think Heinlein's been there. Sounds a bit like 'The Roads Must Roll.' I think Clarke wrote a non-fiction essay on something like that too, though my memory's fuzzier on that. But I think he did say something about the problems of stepping to/from higher speed zones. Nano based materials might make smoother transitions possible, compared to conventional conveyors adjacent to each other, though...
