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Sujit  
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 More options May 16, 7:20 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:20:57 EDT
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 7:20 am
Subject: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
Hello all,

What is solution to
x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2?
( That is x raised to x raised to x ..infinite times... = 2)

One immediate thing comes to mind is:
it is same as x^(the whole thing which is 2) =2
so x = sqrt 2

but if we consider,
x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 4
still we get (if apply same logic)
x=sqrt 2
but then x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) is 2 or 4, if x=sqrt 2?
Surely if x=sqrt2 this series should blow up..and can't remain finite.....
Then what is the way to find x?

Thanks,
---
Regards,
Sujit P Gujar.
IISc Bangalore.
web: http://people.csa.iisc.ernet.in/sujit


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Sujit  
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 More options May 16, 7:44 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:44:33 EDT
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 7:44 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
I guess it may not have solution
But right now I don't have proof...

Surely,
I will like to have experts' opinion.
Thanks,
---
Regards,
Sujit P Gujar.
IISc Bangalore.
Web : http://people.csa.iisc.ernet.in/sujit


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Pubkeybreaker  
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 More options May 16, 8:15 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 05:15:33 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 8:15 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
On May 16, 7:20 am, Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,

> What is solution to
> x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2?
> ( That is x raised to x raised to x ..infinite times... = 2)

> One immediate thing comes to mind is:
> it is same as x^(the whole thing which is 2) =2
> so x = sqrt 2

Here is a hint:

For what positive real number z is z^z maximal?


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David W. Cantrell  
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 More options May 16, 9:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: David W. Cantrell <DWCantr...@sigmaxi.net>
Date: 16 May 2008 13:00:04 GMT
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 9:00 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2

Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,

> What is solution to
> x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2?
> ( That is x raised to x raised to x ..infinite times... = 2)

> One immediate thing comes to mind is:
> it is same as x^(the whole thing which is 2) =2
> so x = sqrt 2

That is correct.

> but if we consider,
> x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 4
> still we get (if apply same logic)
> x=sqrt 2
> but then x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) is 2 or 4, if x=sqrt 2?

It's only 2.

I think there is a result due to Euler that the equation
x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = c has a real solution iff 1/e <= c <= e.

David


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G. A. Edgar  
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 More options May 16, 10:02 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: "G. A. Edgar" <ed...@math.ohio-state.edu.invalid>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:02:09 -0400
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 10:02 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2

> > but then x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) is 2 or 4, if x=sqrt 2?

> It's only 2.

> I think there is a result due to Euler that the equation
> x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = c has a real solution iff 1/e <= c <= e.

Perhaps it is better to say "positive" not "real"...
If x = -1, would you say that x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) converges?

--
G. A. Edgar                              http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~edgar/


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David W. Cantrell  
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 More options May 16, 10:10 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: David W. Cantrell <DWCantr...@sigmaxi.net>
Date: 16 May 2008 14:10:52 GMT
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 10:10 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
"G. A. Edgar" <ed...@math.ohio-state.edu.invalid> wrote:

> > > but then x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) is 2 or 4, if x=sqrt 2?

> > It's only 2.

> > I think there is a result due to Euler that the equation
> > x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = c has a real solution iff 1/e <= c <= e.

> Perhaps it is better to say "positive" not "real"...
> If x = -1, would you say that x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) converges?

Indeed! I might even make the verb past tense:

If x = -1, x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) has already converged.   ;-)

David


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Denis Feldmann  
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 More options May 16, 1:39 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Denis Feldmann <feldmann.denis.asuppri...@neuf.fr>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:39:35 +0200
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
David W. Cantrell a écrit :

Euler, I dont know, but it is reasonably easy to prove. Except it is
first *essential* to define x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....))))  as the limit of
the sequence u_0=x, u_1=x^x,..., u_(n+1)=x^(u_n) ; then classical tests
of convergence of this sequence (here using the mean value theorem) give
the result above

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Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)  
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 More options May 16, 3:36 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)" <sennaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
On May 16, 5:15 am, Pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com> wrote:

> Here is a hint:

> For what positive real number z is z^z maximal?

Pardon me?

Here is a hint:

z = 1000 does not work,
nor z = 1000000, nor...

    Wlod


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Jonathan Hoyle  
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 More options May 16, 5:37 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Jonathan Hoyle <jonho...@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, May 16 2008 5:37 pm
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
On May 16, 7:20 am, Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:

For any x^x^x^... = z, then it must be true that x^z = z.  Let us
assume that x,z real with x,z>0.  If x^z=z, then x=z^(1/z).  Since 0 <
z^(1/z) < ~1.4446... for all z, then we see that x^x^x^... cannot
converge for x > ~1.4446...

This does not prove that x^x^... will converge everywhere on
(0,1.4446...), but if it did converge anywhere in this interval, it
must converge to one of the two values which solves x=z^(1/z).


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Gottfried Helms  
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 More options May 18, 2:09 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 08:09:05 +0200
Local: Sun, May 18 2008 2:09 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
Am 16.05.2008 14:15 schrieb Pubkeybreaker:

> On May 16, 7:20 am, Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,

>> What is solution to
>> x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2?
>> ( That is x raised to x raised to x ..infinite times... = 2)

I want to add (just) an opinion on notation and convention.

One cannot evaluate this -
  x^(x^(...)) = 2
because there is no initial value to start with the
evaluation.

I think you (I'm adressing the OP here) should write
  ...^(x^(x)) = 2
and then
  ...^(x^(x)) = y
  x^y = y

Now you may search for x such that x,x^x,x^x^x,...^x^x^x
converges and find a range for x, where this converges.
(Euler-range for x):

 1/e^e < x < e^(1/e)
or
 -1*e    < ln(x) <  e^-1

Insert this and you find
 x = 2^(1/2) = sqrt(2)
which is in the (Euler-) range.

Now you say, but the same x can be used to express:

  ...^(x^(x)) = 4
because
    x^4 = 4
    x = 4^(1/4)

But how would you introduce a function (of x), which provides
two values for the same x? Functions are *defined* to provide
exactly one value for each x (if at all) .
And also: you may try any value for x from the convergent
Euler-range and approximate- you'll never arrive at 4.

It's the same as with x^2 = y

Formulated as a *function* x=f(y)
 x = f(y)=  y^(1/2)
you have only one solution x for each y (for y=2 we have x = 1.414... )
As a function in x
 y = f(x) = x^2
we have then one value for y for each x (where different x may give
the same value for y, for x0=-sqrt(2), x1=+sqrt(2) y0=y1=2 )

Using the above problem it is

 x = f(y) = y^(1/y)

By the definition of a function we have one solution x for each y
(which may be arrived by different y, namely x=sqrt(2) for y=2 and y=4).

If we want to understand this as *function* of x
 y =  f(x) = lim ...^(x^(x^x))
then by definition we can have only one value of y for any x by the
definition of a function.
(Again: many x may give the same value for y - but this was not
asked in the OP)

If we want to understand y=...^(x^(x^x)) as *inverse* f^-1(y) of
 x = f(y) = y^(1/y), with a *set of solutions* in y we have to
introduce a new convention, different to that of functions.

For the inverse of the exponential-function,  y = f(x) = exp(x),
we have the same problem, we find not only two (as in the
sqrt-example) but even infinitely many (complex) values x giving
the same y:
we have a set of values of x mapping to the same y : {x0,x1,x2,...} -> y
and a notion for an inverse of this mapping y-> {x0,x1,x2,...} needs
then the introduction of another concept; often simply formulated as
"multivalued function".
I find this an unlucky formulation, and think, there should
be a better name for this. Maybe this name was chosen, because
for y=exp(x) the set of {x0,x1,x2,...} has a simple structure:
xk = x0 + k*2*pi*I  , k=0..inf
(But that's only speculation, don't really know the exact whereabouts
of the introduction of the name "multivalued function" besides Euler's
treatise of the log-function, where he dealt with this)

---
Hmm, my own argumentation still doesn't look very straight, as I read
this second time before posting, sorry; I seem to need some more practice
with this discussion myself...

Gottfried

--
---

Gottfried Helms, Kassel


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Pubkeybreaker  
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 More options May 18, 8:37 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 05:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, May 18 2008 8:37 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
On May 16, 3:36�pm, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod)"

<sennaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 5:15 am, Pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Here is a hint:

> > For what positive real number z is z^z maximal?

> Pardon me?

Of course that should have been z^(1/z)

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Sujit  
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 More options May 18, 9:14 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Sujit <sujit.gu...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:14:07 EDT
Local: Sun, May 18 2008 9:14 am
Subject: Re: x^(x^(x^(x^x^...)))....)))) = 2
Thanks everybody for nice inputs.

---
Regards,
Sujit P Gujar.
IISc Bangalore.
Web : http://people.csa.iisc.ernet.in/sujit


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