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qmag...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Jan 26 2005, 11:30 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: qmag...@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:30:04 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jan 26 2005 11:30 am
Subject: fractional iteration of functions
I have discovered some results on how to define fractional iterations
of arbitrary functions recently. I will not go into details besides
describing what a fractional iteration is. f(x) is a function, use the
notation

f_2(x) = f(f(x))
f_3(x) = f(f(f(x)))
etc.

The question is how to define f_n(x) when n is not integer. I have seen
the fractional fourier transform, and it gives a good idea of what I am
talking about. Has there been any work on this allready? I am
considering writing a paper but need refferences.

-- NPC


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Peter Flor  
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 More options Jan 27 2005, 9:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Peter Flor <fl...@HERAKLES.uni-graz.at>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, Jan 27 2005 9:00 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions
qmag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>I have discovered some results on how to define fractional iterations
>of arbitrary functions recently. I will not go into details besides
>describing what a fractional iteration is. f(x) is a function, use
the
>notation

>f_2(x) = f(f(x))
>f_3(x) = f(f(f(x)))
>etc.

>The question is how to define f_n(x) when n is not integer.

>-- NPC

This problem has been treated in a large body of literature at least
for forty years, under the heading "Iteration Theory". It is
documented in many books upon Functional Equations, such as
KUCZMA-GER-CHOZEWSKI: "Iterative Functional Equations" (see the notes
upon the "translation equation" and upon "flows"). Gy. TARGONSKI wrote
a monograph: "Topics in Iteration Theory" (Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht,
1981), containing more than two hundred references. So starting from
scratch might not be advisable.
Best regards, Peter Flor.

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G. A. Edgar  
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 More options Jan 27 2005, 9:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: "G. A. Edgar" <ed...@math.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:00:09 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, Jan 27 2005 9:00 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

In article <ct8gic$9u...@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, <qmag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have discovered some results on how to define fractional iterations
> of arbitrary functions recently. I will not go into details besides
> describing what a fractional iteration is. f(x) is a function, use the
> notation

> f_2(x) = f(f(x))
> f_3(x) = f(f(f(x)))
> etc.

> The question is how to define f_n(x) when n is not integer. I have seen
> the fractional fourier transform, and it gives a good idea of what I am
> talking about. Has there been any work on this allready? I am
> considering writing a paper but need refferences.

Perhaps look for articles posted by Alain Verghote during the past year
in this newsgroup and in sci.math .

For a reference, see the last chapter of the book:
Lectures on functional equations and their applications, by J. Aczel


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Daniel Geisler  
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 More options Jan 27 2005, 9:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Daniel Geisler <dan...@tetration.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, Jan 27 2005 9:00 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

I have links to information on continuous and fractional iteration at
http://www.tetration.org/Dynamics/index.html if that is what you are
asking for. A number of schemes have been proposed for continuous and
fractional iteration, but they are mostly algorithmic in nature. Someone
I respect suggested that a number of scientists realize many such
algorithms can exist; the issue is whether someone can provide a
rigorous axiomatic basis for such studies that provides a solid
foundation and provides a deeper mathematical understanding of the subject.
Daniel Geisler

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qmag...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Jan 28 2005, 9:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: qmag...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:00:05 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Jan 28 2005 9:00 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

> A number of schemes have been proposed for continuous and
> fractional iteration, but they are mostly algorithmic in nature.
Someone
> I respect suggested that a number of scientists realize many such
> algorithms can exist; the issue is whether someone can provide a
> rigorous axiomatic basis for such studies that provides a solid
> foundation and provides a deeper mathematical understanding of the
subject.
> Daniel Geisler

Wow, first, thanks for all the responses. I now have more then enough
references to investigate. I have gotten a good response on this
question. Second, I would like to respond to Mr. Geisler's last comment
about axiomatic basis for function iteration. I think that will be the
goal of the paper I write. Well, at least an axiomatic basis for well
behaved functions over the complex plane.

It seems there are some very serious open questions relating to this
subject. One question I find personally very interesting, relates to
how many iterative function solutions a particular function should
have. For instance take f(f(x)) = e^x. The function e^x has no fixed
point on the real line but an infinity of them in C. Does each new
fixed point create its own solution for an iteration function? Are
there solutions of the iteration function outside of the fixed points?

For instance f(x) = 6 + 2x - x^2, has two fixed points x = 3 and x =
-2. Using the method I alluded to in the first post, you can generate
two series solutions to f(x) from the fixed points. So does the
function above have more then one 2 solutions for the iteration
function, or does it have exactly 2?
Of course this could have been answered years ago in other papers for
all I know...

Yours,
        -- NPC


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Daniel Geisler  
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 More options Jan 29 2005, 5:00 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Daniel Geisler <dan...@tetration.org>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:00:15 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

qmag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Wow, first, thanks for all the responses. I now have more then enough
> references to investigate. I have gotten a good response on this
> question. Second, I would like to respond to Mr. Geisler's last comment
> about axiomatic basis for function iteration. I think that will be the
> goal of the paper I write. Well, at least an axiomatic basis for well
> behaved functions over the complex plane.

That would be great. Iterated functions are considered a valid approach
to dynamical systems in physics. As far as I know, Aldrovandi and
Freitas[1] are the only ones would have mastered the mathematics of
either continuously iterated or fractionally iterated functions to
provide additional insight into physics; in their case the Navier-Stokes
equations. Fractionally iterated functions would also be critical in
providing a mechanism for extending the Ackermann function from the
integers to the rational numbers.

> It seems there are some very serious open questions relating to this
> subject. One question I find personally very interesting, relates to
> how many iterative function solutions a particular function should
> have. For instance take f(f(x)) = e^x. The function e^x has no fixed
> point on the real line but an infinity of them in C. Does each new
> fixed point create its own solution for an iteration function? Are
> there solutions of the iteration function outside of the fixed points?

> For instance f(x) = 6 + 2x - x^2, has two fixed points x = 3 and x =
> -2. Using the method I alluded to in the first post, you can generate
> two series solutions to f(x) from the fixed points. So does the
> function above have more then one 2 solutions for the iteration
> function, or does it have exactly 2?
> Of course this could have been answered years ago in other papers for
> all I know...

I believe this is one of the most important if not the central question
that needs to be addressed in extending iterated functions. Gralewicz
and Kowalski[2] are quite critical of Aldrovandi and Freitas’s paper
because they find a second solution to a continuously iterated function
(I believe using a second fixed point) when Aldrovandi and Freitas
maintain that they have found a unique solution. Personally I think that
the degree of criticism is inappropriate for a paper I feel is deserving
of a Nobel Prize.

Consider the iterates of f(z); typically there will be not only fixed
points but period k fixed points. Given that f(z) has a period two fixed
point, now consider the iterates of g(z) such that g(z) = f(f(z)). Both
of the period two fixed points for f(z) serve as period one fixed points
for g(z).

Cris Moore suggested an interesting test for validating a continuously
iterated function. It’s easy to kludge together a function that is
faithful to the Lyapunov exponent of a fixed point in the fixed point’s
neighborhood; the trick is for it to also be faithful to the Lyapunov
exponent of other fixed points in their neighborhoods. I had some
positive but not conclusive results with my own work when I modeled the
Taylor series from a fixed point of the continuous iteration of a very
low entropy exponential function c^z with the value of c near to 1. This
takes an incredible amount of computational power to do right since as z
moves away from the fixed point the Taylor series must model the fixed
point’s Lyapunov exponent, further out model chaotic behavior, and then
as z takes even larger values the Taylor series must settle down and
model a second fixed point and its Lyapunov exponent.

Since my own work is based on finding the Taylor series of iteration
functions from a fixed point, assuming the existence of a fixed point
and that the function is smooth, the very existence of a solution
indicates that a solution is associated with every fixed point. If there
is a solution for each fixed point it may be that we are only talking
about one solution appearing as many under translation from one fixed
point to another.

I think it may be appropriate to extend your question about whether a
solution is associated with each fixed point to ask if a solution is
associated with every set of period k fixed points. What about solutions
for when k goes to infinity? What about solutions for strange attractors?

Good luck,
Daniel

[1] R. Aldrovandi and L. P. Freitas,
     Continuous iteration of dynamical maps,
     J. Math. Phys. 39, 5324 (1998)

[2] P. Gralewicz and K. Kowalski,
     Continuous time evolution from iterated maps and Carleman
linearization,
     arxiv.org 2000


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Alain Verghote  
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 More options Jan 29 2005, 5:00 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Alain Verghote <alainvergh...@yahoo.fr>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:00:16 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

Dear Qmagick,

You've picked up some 'stuff' for your study about fractional
iteration fonctions.
You've written "one question I find personaly interesting relates to
how many iterative functions solutions a particular function should
have " .I am mainly concerned with real ,continuous functions.
I want to show two examples.
    1°)f^[2](x)= x  ,just have to write a symmetrical {f,x} expression
, like x*f+f+x =3 ...Is there a generalization to [n] ?

    2°) f(x) = 2x +1 , f^[1/2](x)= ? the iterated line (ax+b)[r]  
gives two roots f^[1/2](x)=-xsqrt(2)-1-sqrt(2);
          f^[1/2](x)= xsqrt(2)-1+sqrt(2) ,
          compute f^[1/3](x)!!!
Please do tell me about the significant results you arrived at.
Honestly I think we still have to work in order to clarify and to make
continuous iterated fractions more 'catchable',

Sincerely,Alain.


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Daniel Asimov  
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 More options Jan 30 2005, 10:30 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Daniel Asimov <asimov.nos...@msri.org>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:30:06 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sun, Jan 30 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

NPC (qmag...@yahoo.com) wrote:

<<
One question I find personally very interesting, relates to
how many iterative function solutions a particular function should
have. For instance take f(f(x)) = e^x. The function e^x has no fixed
point on the real line but an infinity of them in C. Does each new
fixed point create its own solution for an iteration function? Are
there solutions of the iteration function outside of the fixed points?


I have studied these questions and have some answers (kindly cite me
as the source if you quote the following -- thanks).

1. Yes, each fixed point creates its own solution for an iteration
function.

2. Yes, there are solutions of the iteration function outside of the
fixed points; in particular there are infinitely many real analytic
flows into which e^x embeds on the reals.

Daniel Asimov


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Dave Rusin  
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 More options Jan 30 2005, 10:30 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: ru...@math.niu.edu (Dave Rusin)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:30:06 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sun, Jan 30 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions

In article <ctdgh5$s1...@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,  <qmag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>For instance f(x) = 6 + 2x - x^2, has two fixed points x = 3 and x =
>-2. Using the method I alluded to in the first post, you can generate
>two series solutions to f(x) from the fixed points. So does the
>function above have more then one 2 solutions for the iteration
>function, or does it have exactly 2?

Or does it have any at all?

By "solution" you seem to mean a smooth function, domain unspecified.
If you compute this solution by computing power series at a fixed point
(so that what you're computing is actually the germ of a solution, but
never mind) then I think you need to know whether the power series
converges before you can assert that there is a solution (defined somewhere
besides the fixed point of course).

For example I looked for a solution to  g o g = x - x^2  of the form
g(x) = x + a2 x^2 + a3 x^3 + ... ; the rational coefficients seem to
grow too rapidly to permit convergence (I went as far as the coefficient of
x^100 and it appeared  log(|a_n|)  grew faster than linearly). So if
this series has a zero radius of convergence, in what sense is it a solution?

Your specific quadratic may be different. I looked instead at the function
f(x) =  4x - 3x^2  so I could avoid surds, looking for a power-series
solution starting  g(x) = 2x + a2 x^2 + ... . I "solved" this in a very
round-about way. First I found the coefficients a3, a4, ..., a_75 in turn.
Factoring numerators and denominators and looking for a pattern, I found
that   a_{n+1} / a_n = (3 n^2 - 6)/(4n^2 + 6n + 2)  so the series appears to
converge for |z| < 4/3. In particular the value  g(x)  would be the limit of
the partial sums  S_n  which satisfy a recurrence
  (4n^2 + 6n + 2) S_{n+1} = ((4+3x)n^2 + 6n+(2-6x)) S_n - 3x(n^2 - 2) S_n .
Maple solves this recurrence relation and I can massage the answer to be  S_n =
   (2*x)*(   hypergeom([1, 1-2^(1/2), 1+2^(1/2)],[3/2, 2],3/4*x) +
 (2/Pi)^(1/2)*(sin(Pi*(-1+2^(1/2)))/4)*n^(-3/2)*((3/4)*x)^n
 *hypergeom([1, n+1-2^(1/2), n+1+2^(1/2)],[n+2, n+3/2],3/4*x)
 *(GAMMA(n+1-2^(1/2))*GAMMA(n+1+2^(1/2))/GAMMA(2*n+3)*4^n*n^(3/2)*4/Pi^(1/2) ) )
The first line is free of  n's  and the last line tends to  1  as  n->oo;
Maple did not succeed in evaluating the limit of the rest as  n --> oo, except
numerically, and for the few  x  I tried it seems this limit is zero, leaving
  g(x) = 2*x*hypergeom([1, 1-2^(1/2), 1+2^(1/2)],[3/2, 2],3/4*x) .
Indeed, this  g  has the correct Taylor-series coefficients (through x^75).
I have to say I didn't expect a "closed form" solution. Computing numerical
values of  g(g(x)) we check we do indeed get  4x-3x^2  but only for  
x < 1.07  or so, after which the function  g  starts to decrease.

Well, this is a lot of guesswork but it seems to nominate a specific
function to be a solution to the functional equation; I suppose someone who
uses the hypergeometric functions regularly could prove  g o g = 4x - 3x^2.
I want only to observe that the function  g  numerically takes the value
g(1) = 1.3226017298723... rather than  g(1) = 1,  so this is not the
same as the solution you would construct from the fixed point of f at 1.

Since you asked about solving  g o g = exp  and seem to be interested in
complex-analytic solutions, I will just point out that there is no
such solution defined everywhere in the complex plane, as can be deduced
from thinking about the order of entire functions; see Polya,
"On an integral function of an integral function",  
Journal London Math. Soc. 1 (1926), p. 12-15.

dave


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qmag...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Jan 30 2005, 10:30 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: qmag...@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:30:07 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sun, Jan 30 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions
I wanted to also add one more thing. I forgot to give one other trivial
solution.

f(x) = c, F(n,x) = c, c is a constant belonging to C. No other
conditions on the iterate.

I was thinking also about piecewise continuous functions p(x) of the
various trivial solutions to see if they are amenable to solution. I
was using Mathematica to define them and play around. For instance:

p(x) = x, if x > 1
2x + 1, if 0 < x <= 1
x^3, if x <= 0

This function has overlap in the values that the function produces
[p(3) = p(1)]. If I could find a general solution or general method the
results might be helpfull in approximating other more general functions
also. This is just an idea currently... It looks like that if the
piecewise functions do not have overlap the solution for the total
iterate will be the set of piecewise iterate solutions, otherwise the
iterations of p(x) become much harder. So for now this method would
only work for functions that are allways increasing or allways
decreasing and can be modeled as piecewise of the trivial solutions. Of
course don't take any of this to be definite except the solution for
f(x) = c for the iterate (sorry).

Sincerely, Nathan


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Discussion subject changed to "fractional iteration of functions II" by Daniel Geisler
Daniel Geisler  
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 More options Jan 30 2005, 10:30 am
Newsgroups: sci.math.research
From: Daniel Geisler <dan...@tetration.org>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:30:03 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sun, Jan 30 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Re: fractional iteration of functions II
I forgot to mention that it might be useful to investigate what happens
when you use different types of fixed points because of complex (or
topological) conjugancy. I had written a Mathematica program in the
mid-nineties that was giving some nice results for tetration of complex
numbers (continuously iterating the exponential function), but because I
was using real numbers in my calculations there was always some error. I
realized that if I continuously iterated the sine function, which has a
fixed point a zero, then I could test my results where all the
calculations used rational numbers instead of real numbers. To my dismay
my calculations just produced garbage. I was able to write a different
program that did continuously iterate the sine function without any
error terms, but it took a while for me to realize that my attempts to
tetrate complex numbers had always used a hyperbolic fixed point while
the sine function has a parabolic rationally neutral fixed point.

The classification of fixed points states that complex dynamics (the
dynamics of the complex plane) can result in hyperbolic, irrationally
neutral, rationally neutral, parabolic rationally neutral, and
superattracting fixed points. They all have distinct dynamical
pro