I sometimes feel like I'm asking for free lessons or something because I can contribute so little to many of the discussions here --- but I have no other way of requesting peer (I know - I should say "elder") review soooo....
I was digging around in my old music and ran across an old hand scribbled score for the Double from the Suite in Bm for Unaccompanied Violin. I used to play this and remember it as being moderately tough on the hands, so I thought I'd give my hands a little test to see if they could still handle it.
I've obviously forgotten how I used to finger it because several bits feel too un-natural - but I went ahead and started reworking it for fun.
I made a vid of the first minute and a half or so - section 1 and the beginning of section 2. Not up to speed, of course - and the dern vid became a bit dark part way through (a cloud passed overhead). I tried lightening the vid but it seems to have caused a little sync problem between the video and the audio toward the end of the vid - but not too bad. I left the .mov file for quicktime users dark because the lightened version could not be opened by quicktime.
Anyway, before I get this really pushed into my hands, I'd really like some critique from other players. So, if you're familiar with this piece (I can't scan the had written score I have - comes out very badly) and if you have a couple of minutes, I would really appreciate some review. (it's very short - and really should take just a couple of minutes)
My left hand really passes gas badly on one note (you'll know it when you hear it :-)) which is not to say that is the only bad note, of course) but, other than obvious fumbles, can you spot any really terrible fingerings or phrasing etc.?? Am I making it harder than it needs to be (it surprises me that I can't at ALL remember the fingering I used long ago).
Thanks y'all!! -- Any critique will be greatly appreciated.
-- Horace ...once known as "Kicker" :-) ================================================================ ...drop by and chat if I'm online http://www.hav.com/chat/ ...or chuckle at a little left hand fingertip torture http://www.hav.com/junk/ ================================================================ Horace Vallas hav.Software http://www.hav.com/ P.O. Box 354 h...@hav.com Richmond, Tx. 77406-0354 voice: 281-341-5035 USA fax: 281-341-5087
Thawte Web Of Trust Notary in SW Houston, Tx. http://www.hav.com/?content=/thawteWOTnotary.htm ================================================================ What is a Vet? ... He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the cosmic scales by four hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th parallel. ... - Unknown ================================================================
> My left hand really passes gas badly on one note > (you'll know it when you hear it :-))
Well, it was easy to spot the accompanying face crunch. Nice playing. Not sure what you are looking for but it will be interesting to see what others who play the piece say. Thanks for posting this.
> I sometimes feel like I'm asking for free lessons or something because I > can contribute so little to many of the discussions here --- but I have > no other way of requesting peer (I know - I should say "elder") review > soooo....
> I was digging around in my old music and ran across an old hand > scribbled score for the Double from the Suite in Bm for Unaccompanied > Violin. I used to play this and remember it as being moderately tough on > the hands, so I thought I'd give my hands a little test to see if they > could still handle it.
> I've obviously forgotten how I used to finger it because several bits > feel too un-natural - but I went ahead and started reworking it for fun.
> I made a vid of the first minute and a half or so - section 1 and the > beginning of section 2. Not up to speed, of course - and the dern vid > became a bit dark part way through (a cloud passed overhead). I tried > lightening the vid but it seems to have caused a little sync problem > between the video and the audio toward the end of the vid - but not too > bad. I left the .mov file for quicktime users dark because the lightened > version could not be opened by quicktime.
> Anyway, before I get this really pushed into my hands, I'd really like > some critique from other players. So, if you're familiar with this piece > (I can't scan the had written score I have - comes out very badly) and > if you have a couple of minutes, I would really appreciate some review. > (it's very short - and really should take just a couple of minutes)
> My left hand really passes gas badly on one note (you'll know it when > you hear it :-)) which is not to say that is the only bad note, of > course) but, other than obvious fumbles, can you spot any really > terrible fingerings or phrasing etc.?? Am I making it harder than it > needs to be (it surprises me that I can't at ALL remember the fingering > I used long ago).
> Thanks y'all!! -- Any critique will be greatly appreciated.
> -- > Horace ...once known as "Kicker" :-) > ================================================================ > ...drop by and chat if I'm online http://www.hav.com/chat/ > ...or chuckle at a little left hand > fingertip torture http://www.hav.com/junk/ > ================================================================ > Horace Vallas hav.Software http://www.hav.com/ > P.O. Box 354 h...@hav.com > Richmond, Tx. 77406-0354 voice: 281-341-5035 > USA fax: 281-341-5087
> Thawte Web Of Trust Notary in SW Houston, Tx. > http://www.hav.com/?content=/thawteWOTnotary.htm > ================================================================ > What is a Vet? ... He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five > wooden planks, whose overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a > hundred times in the cosmic scales by four hours of exquisite > bravery near the 38th parallel. ... - Unknown > ================================================================
Sorry I can't give you any information on how to improve your playing, but I think it's pretty darn good. No April fooling. Wish I was as bad as you...
That's a funky sound effect you get where the mic hiss drops during the quiet parts. It's call "expansion", I believe. Kind of annoying, I get this on my recordings onto my hard drive. Yuck.
Horace "Kicker" Vallas wrote: > I sometimes feel like I'm asking for free lessons or something because I > can contribute so little to many of the discussions here --- but I have > no other way of requesting peer (I know - I should say "elder") review > soooo....
> I was digging around in my old music and ran across an old hand > scribbled score for the Double from the Suite in Bm for Unaccompanied > Violin. I used to play this and remember it as being moderately tough on > the hands, so I thought I'd give my hands a little test to see if they > could still handle it.
> I've obviously forgotten how I used to finger it because several bits > feel too un-natural - but I went ahead and started reworking it for fun.
> I made a vid of the first minute and a half or so - section 1 and the > beginning of section 2. Not up to speed, of course - and the dern vid > became a bit dark part way through (a cloud passed overhead). I tried > lightening the vid but it seems to have caused a little sync problem > between the video and the audio toward the end of the vid - but not too > bad. I left the .mov file for quicktime users dark because the lightened > version could not be opened by quicktime.
> Anyway, before I get this really pushed into my hands, I'd really like > some critique from other players. So, if you're familiar with this piece > (I can't scan the had written score I have - comes out very badly) and > if you have a couple of minutes, I would really appreciate some review. > (it's very short - and really should take just a couple of minutes)
> My left hand really passes gas badly on one note (you'll know it when > you hear it :-)) which is not to say that is the only bad note, of > course) but, other than obvious fumbles, can you spot any really > terrible fingerings or phrasing etc.?? Am I making it harder than it > needs to be (it surprises me that I can't at ALL remember the fingering > I used long ago).
dsi1 wrote: > Sorry I can't give you any information on how to improve your playing, > but I think it's pretty darn good. No April fooling. Wish I was as bad > as you...
> That's a funky sound effect you get where the mic hiss drops during the > quiet parts. It's call "expansion", I believe. Kind of annoying, I get > this on my recordings onto my hard drive. Yuck.
> David
hi david - and thanks - yes - that webcam mic is pretty stinky and I'm not very good at editing out the noise (yet - if ever) -- I guess I should get a real mic, if for no other reason that to make the vids maybe a little less painful to watch ---- HEY - now THAT sounds like a good excu... ummm :-\ ... I mean ... reason for spending a little cash :-))
-- Horace ...once known as "Kicker" :-) ================================================================ ...drop by and chat if I'm online http://www.hav.com/chat/ ...or chuckle at a little left hand fingertip torture http://www.hav.com/junk/ ================================================================ Horace Vallas hav.Software http://www.hav.com/ P.O. Box 354 h...@hav.com Richmond, Tx. 77406-0354 voice: 281-341-5035 USA fax: 281-341-5087
Thawte Web Of Trust Notary in SW Houston, Tx. http://www.hav.com/?content=/thawteWOTnotary.htm ================================================================ What is a Vet? ... He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the cosmic scales by four hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th parallel. ... - Unknown ================================================================
> Thanks y'all!! -- Any critique will be greatly appreciated.
First the good news ..
You took on an impressive piece. Simply memorizing the piece is a fair amount of work.
There's no doubting that you're a pretty sharp guy.
Except for the deep breath you took before playing, for the most part you seem relaxed.
You're pleasant to watch.
The music you selected is very beautiful. I've never heard it before. It's wonderful and I'm not suprised it's stayed with you over the years.
I'm also very impressed that you're posting these songs on the internet for us and the world to view. That is very cool.
Um, I can't tell for certain on the quicktime movie but it looks like you lightly anchor your pinky on the first string. Personally I think that is a good idea. I like it.
You also play the piece at a brisk pace - that helps keep it interesting.
Now for the take it or leave it bad news ...
On the very begining B minor I'd recommend some vibrato on the 6th string. And I'd recommend doing something with it - playing it round like a hoom sound to it.
(Actually there are other spots where some vibrato would really help, e.g. the hold half way through the piece and the end.)
Also, I'd recommend playing the treble strings on the left side of your nail and using a slight twist motion. I'd strive for a magic sort of soft sound. Something that highlights the quality of your guitar.
Another thing, I think the quality of the sound in those upper registers would be improved if you polished your nails with extra extra fine paper. I think I hear a subtle scratch when you hit the strings.
I'd also strive to make the bass lines separate from the melody.
Actually you are playing it fairly well and you probably are thinking that you're pretty close and that you're doing that already.
So if I could give you one piece of advice here, something to practice, it would be to try to keep the treble strings pressed until after hitting the 6th string. And listen closely as you play and make certain the bass line has not subtle breaks.
There is one spot in particular - as the song goes down the guitar neck where you play an open B and the sustain in the bass is totally dies. I'd recommend playing that B on the 4th fret and keeping that F# pressed.
Regarding the big picture, and phrasing. Well, you play the song without any major gaphs so, some a good amound of phrasing comes just from the music itself.
As it is, you haven't added much phrasing of your own.
For one thing, the entire song is played above the sound hole. I'd recommend playing ponticello after that hold just about half way through the song.
Also, about 12 measures after picking up after the hold there is a spot where the quality of the sound on the 3rd string has sort a a guitar/twang to it. I'd recommend playing that ponticello. Make the quality of the sond on that 3rd string *really* stand out.
Finally, about 3 quarters of they way through the piece there's a spot where you play an open A, then later an open E. I would recommend dampening them with your thumb. It will sound better that way. I think of your playing Prelude 1 for lute where you let the open E ring as you work your way down the guitar neck. It's a similar sort of deal. If you can dampen those notes and turn them into half notes as written it sounds more forceful and the melody on the upper register comes out better.
It's interesting how the light starts out bright then darkens. And there is considerable white noice in the audio. Not a big deal but I mention it so you know I'm paying attention.
Right at the end you seem somewhat satisfied with your playing but you make a bit of a "that's the best I can do" sort of facial expression. It's better to show off. Try a "I'm showing off" attitude and when you play alude to your enjoyment and happiness. More than what you do now. And put on a face of confidence. Even if there is a bit of acting involved.
>>Thanks y'all!! -- Any critique will be greatly appreciated.
> First the good news ..
> You took on an impressive piece. Simply memorizing the piece is a fair > amount of work.
> There's no doubting that you're a pretty sharp guy.
> Except for the deep breath you took before playing, for the most part > you seem relaxed.
> You're pleasant to watch.
> The music you selected is very beautiful. I've never heard it before. > It's wonderful and > I'm not suprised it's stayed with you over the years.
> I'm also very impressed that you're posting these songs on the internet > for us and the > world to view. That is very cool.
> Um, I can't tell for certain on the quicktime movie but it looks like > you lightly anchor > your pinky on the first string. Personally I think that is a good idea. > I like it.
> You also play the piece at a brisk pace - that helps keep it > interesting.
> Now for the take it or leave it bad news ...
> On the very begining B minor I'd recommend some vibrato on the 6th > string. And I'd > recommend doing something with it - playing it round like a hoom sound > to it.
> (Actually there are other spots where some vibrato would really help, > e.g. the > hold half way through the piece and the end.)
> Also, I'd recommend playing the treble strings on the left side of your > nail and using > a slight twist motion. I'd strive for a magic sort of soft sound. > Something that highlights > the quality of your guitar.
> Another thing, I think the quality of the sound in those upper > registers > would be improved if you polished your nails with extra extra fine > paper. I think > I hear a subtle scratch when you hit the strings.
> I'd also strive to make the bass lines separate from the melody.
> Actually you are playing it fairly well and you probably are thinking > that you're pretty > close and that you're doing that already.
> So if I could give you one piece of advice here, something to practice, > it would > be to try to keep the treble strings pressed until after hitting the > 6th string. And listen > closely as you play and make certain the bass line has not subtle > breaks.
> There is one spot in particular - as the song goes down the guitar neck > where you > play an open B and the sustain in the bass is totally dies. I'd > recommend playing > that B on the 4th fret and keeping that F# pressed.
> Regarding the big picture, and phrasing. Well, you play the song > without any major > gaphs so, some a good amound of phrasing comes just from the music > itself.
> As it is, you haven't added much phrasing of your own.
> For one thing, the entire song is played above the sound hole. I'd > recommend > playing ponticello after that hold just about half way through the > song.
> Also, about 12 measures after picking up after the hold there > is a spot where the quality of the sound on the 3rd string > has sort a a guitar/twang to it. I'd recommend playing that ponticello. > Make the quality of the sond on that 3rd string *really* stand out.
> Finally, about 3 quarters of they way through the piece there's a spot > where > you play an open A, then later an open E. I would recommend dampening > them with your thumb. It will sound better that way. I think of your > playing > Prelude 1 for lute where you let the open E ring as you work your way > down > the guitar neck. It's a similar sort of deal. If you can dampen those > notes > and turn them into half notes as written it sounds more forceful and > the > melody on the upper register comes out better.
> It's interesting how the light starts out bright then darkens. And > there is > considerable white noice in the audio. Not a big deal but I mention it > so > you know I'm paying attention.
> Right at the end you seem somewhat satisfied with your playing but you > make a bit of a "that's the best I can do" sort of facial expression. > It's better > to show off. Try a "I'm showing off" attitude and when you play > alude to your enjoyment and happiness. More than what you do now. > And put on a face of confidence. Even if there is a bit of acting > involved.
I wasn't going to bother looking at the clip, but this critique seems so detailed and interesting--exactly the type of evaluation I'd wish for from a teacher--that I'm going to have a look at it.
> I wasn't going to bother looking at the clip, > but this critique seems so detailed and
> interesting--exactly the type of evaluation
> I'd wish for from a teacher-- > that I'm going to have a look at it.
Interesting that you like this kind of critique and expect it from a teacher.
Gimme said nothing about the actual music itself, nothing about the phrasing, nothing about what the double is doubling and how the phrasing might be used to show how the double is an ornament. The details of that particular performance Gimme focused on might change once the musical form is defined better.
> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" >> I wasn't going to bother looking at the clip, >> but this critique seems so detailed and > > interesting--exactly the type of evaluation >> I'd wish for from a teacher-- >> that I'm going to have a look at it.
> Interesting that you like this kind of critique and expect it from a > teacher.
> Gimme said nothing about the actual music itself, nothing about the > phrasing, nothing about what the double is doubling and how the phrasing > might be used to show how the double is an ornament. The details of that > particular performance Gimme focused on might change once the musical form > is defined better.
Larry,
It seemed like an honest effort to provide his opinion on what might improve the piece for Horace.
Horace - thanks for posting. I've heard this piece played and fumbled painfully through, so your effort sounded beautiful to my ears. We can always improve. If any of these opinons help you, thats great.
Any/Everyone - a recommendation for an arrangement (for guitar -- I'm not looking to do the work on bringing from the violin) of this piece would be a greatly appreciated input.
