i play every day around 8 to 10 Hours online in GE/PrimeBackgammon/Play65 and Partygammon. My Level of play is between Expert and Worldclass (Error rate in average around 3 snowie). Usally i have around 50-80 money Games on one day. So I have a few thousend games archived, and also alot of Matches.
Software/Client:
Partygammon: the software there is awful and slow, it substract times even when you have made your move and just have to wait to hit the done buttom cause of the delay. Even with the checker moves you have sometimes delay. Which makes the games slow.
Ge/Play65...: The speed there is much better then at Partygammon, but sometimes the software crashes and have a few bugs.
Summary for Software: for both in my opinion below average with a small edge for GE because of the speed. They shoud both improve their software and boards. The best software i have seen was on TMG nice Board and speed also good. They should learn from TMG.
Aktion/Traffic: Traffic is much higher in GE/Play65, and a lot of fishes. Partygammon seems to resign cause they dont do a lot of to bring Players on their backgammon side. Nowadays only Hgh Roller tournament. No Added Money. It seems they focus mainly on Poker and Casiono games. GE/Play65 offers a lot of different tourneys with added Money and qualification for life Tourneys.
Rake structure: GE/Play65 with their rate based rakeing system is too high. And the rake system is not clear and not easy to find on thier websides. Partygammon is cheaper but still too high.
Rating: Well Rating kills aktion. GE/Play should stop rating system, like partygammon. Big Edge for Partygammon with no Ratings.
Resolving unfinished games: GE: not good solution a lot of players just stop playing and trying to lower their lose, when they see they dont have good chance to save the gammon or the game. I personaly prefer Partygammon solution, the Player who leaves lost. Its simple and clear.
Cash out: Partygammon in cashout is just perfekt with neteller for example i usually have the money in a few hours, very fast and i never had problems with cashout, its simple perfekt. GE/Play65: well i just can say very very slow. First you have 3 days for the cancel possibilty then it takes again a few days until its processed. In average it takes around 5 to 7 Days until you get your money. I have read a lot of Articels here about problems with cashouts in GE. I can not say anything, cause i always get my money so far.
Reputation: Because of the many artikels here, where people complain they didnt get their money. I usually dont leave big amounts on my Account on GE. I only leave enough money i realy need. I make immeadly cashouts every day, because of the reputation. I also heard this in a few live Tourneys which i visited, so i take it serious. About Partygammon i never heard about this stuff it seams their reputation is good.
Cheating/Rating manipulation: In Partygammon it seems they dont do anything against it (bots). In GE Play65 it looks like they do something but its not clear what, cause the players which have been caught, dont know where their confiscated money is going to.
Dices / Game manipulation: For sure is that both company have the possibilty to manipulate the outcome of the game, and i think its being used, specially against profressional and people who have many cashouts.
SUMMARY: My perfekt Backgammon Online Playing Side: -Software like TMG or better and fast -Cashout like Partygammon -Traffic and Tournaments like Play65 GE -Third party Authority wich secures that there is no possibilty for Manipulation from the Company Side, and resolving problems between Players and the Companys who run the server. -clear Rake structure easy to find and lower then it is today -No Rating System -Clear for people who cheated and people who was cheated what happens with the money and what steps has been taken against the cheater (should be public) -no house players -Company should have insurance when they go bankrupt, that the players get their money, cause generaly they act like banks
On Jun 29, 4:41 pm, "SharkyFish" <nospam@invalid> wrote:
> Aktion/Traffic: > Traffic is much higher in GE/Play65, and a lot of fishes. > Rake structure: > GE/Play65 with their rate based rakeing system is too high. And the rake > system is not clear and not easy to find on thier websides. > Partygammon is cheaper but still too high.
> Rating: > Well Rating kills aktion. GE/Play should stop rating system, like > partygammon. Big Edge for Partygammon with no Ratings. > SUMMARY: > My perfekt Backgammon Online Playing Side: > -clear Rake structure easy to find and lower then it is today > -No Rating System
It's interesting that you'd like a lower rake (who wouldn't?) and no rating system because it "kills action." But you also say there's more traffic and "a lot of fishes" on GE/Play65 -- the site that has the higher rake and has a ratings system.
yes the rake there is higher and there is much more traffic because they make very aggressive Advertisment in the Internet. Most of the Backgammon Websides have their Logo. And also they offer much more Tourneys with added money and Winning seats in Life Tourneys. Thats what i miss on Partygammon.
> On Jun 29, 4:41=A0pm, "SharkyFish" <nospam@invalid> wrote: >> Aktion/Traffic: >> Traffic is much higher in GE/Play65, and a lot of fishes.
>> Rake structure: >> GE/Play65 with their rate based rakeing system is too high. And the rake >> system is not clear and not easy to find on thier websides. >> Partygammon is cheaper but still too high.
>> Rating: >> Well Rating kills aktion. GE/Play should stop rating system, like >> partygammon. Big Edge for Partygammon with no Ratings.
>> SUMMARY: >> My perfekt Backgammon Online Playing Side: >> -clear Rake structure easy to find and lower then it is today >> -No Rating System
> It's interesting that you'd like a lower rake (who wouldn't?) and no > rating system because it "kills action." But you also say there's more > traffic and "a lot of fishes" on GE/Play65 -- the site that has the > higher rake and has a ratings system.
My current beta seems stable, besides a minor bug in "auto play forced moves". Iīve been working on a new version, but I didnīt spend so much time on it recently, basically because the next step Iīm waiting for is to get a license for real money play. So as of right now, there is a working server available, completely for free, with a software far better than most other free servers, only without advertising not many players know about it and the few who pop in once in a while often find noone to play with. It seems that the expected availability of real money play makes players think, the free part isnīt worth going for, so everyone is waiting for the real thing.
For the real thing, the posts above couldnīt describe better, what the problem is. Getting a license is not really the problem, it is the expenses it causes and the way, how to get the business into the profit zone.
The usual way, how to open a real money server is: 1) Find one or more investors 2) Buy a license somewhere in the Caribbean 3) Buy a server in same location 4) Pray that the profit will be enough to satisfy the investors
This is already the beginning of a chain of expenses that can never be compensated. Providers in the Caribbean charge for a server about 20 times as much as the same thing would cost somewhere else, only problem, somewhere else a real money server isnīt legal, meaning they wouldnīt have a license in the first place.
The investors want to see a plan, of how the server will generate profit in the near future and the very first thing required is active players. So the server comes up with a signup bonus, which attracts tons of vultures. This doesnīt generate any profit, just the opposite, it requires additional investment, but the investors see some action and the law of business says, every customer has a price, so they pay and believe that in between all the vultures there will be enough real players who will stay later on to compensate the loss.
Sooner or later the investors realize, all this signup bonus is wasted money, because there are in fact only a few players who signup multiple times, cash the bonus and disappear, just to reappear with a new nick a minute later. Thatīs when they usually terminate the signup bonus, or at least lower it to a minimum, start checking for double signups and invent a deposit bonus. Obviously the very same vultures will be back instantly, using the signup bonus they had cashed out earlier to re-deposit it, get an additional deposit bonus, cash it out all together and disappear again. Still doesnīt generate any profit, still the opposite, even worse, on top of paying tons of bonus the server now has to pay transfer fees for all the deposits, but instead of wasted money the investors now see a cashflow, so they take all the patience they can find and keep going, after all they have already invested so much money, they just donīt want to give up on it yet. In german we call that "throw good money after bad money".
After another while the investors realize, all the cashflow is just their own money, nobody is using his own money to deposit, they all just move the investors money around, causing more and more expenses for transfer fees and additional staff they need to process all the transfers. From there on, it goes downhill, depending on their strategy more or less fast and depending on the contracts it takes more or less time.
The usual things they try: - Increase the rake - Implement ratings and progressive rake to prevent sharks from winning - Install house robots - Confiscate winnings if the slightest reason is available
Since all this leads to players running away, they try to find less expensive ways to attract players: - Hold freerolls for pennies - Hold added money tournaments
But no matter what they try, the business rule that every customer has a price turns out to be too expensive to compensate for it, because all the side expenses for transfer fees, hardware, license etc costs more than a handful of real players could ever compensate.
At this point there is one last option, as far as the investors are still willing to waste more money, they figure their problem as the combination of 2 details they hadnīt even considered yet. 1) Checking the only 2 real successful real money servers (GE/Play65 and PartyGammon) they figure, a rake close to open street robbery doesn īt even matter, a messy software is no problem at all, all they need is advertising, if only they run enough advertising, they will have the players. 2) All profit is based on fish, weak players are the only ones who make deposits, and the only way to turn those deposits into profit is to prevent sharks from stealing it.
But then comes the surprise, GE has occupied the entire web with banners, almost any website remotely connected to BG already carries a GE banner, there is just no room for a new server and their advertising. PartyGammon had the resources to run worldwide TV-ads for a while, but I donīt think many other companies will have that kind of money. Depending on the contracts the managers and investors have, they are forced to keep the server running for a while, but from here on nobody expects anything anymore, they just try to minimize the loss and wait for the final collapse. They end up with a handful of real players, but by far not enough to even out the basic expenses for hardware, license and staff.
From a players point of view things are much easier: There are always some servers wasting tons of money, all one has to do is find them and collect free money while they offer it. If one server terminates free money, players move to the next. Once in a while their is no free money available, or just pennies for hours playing freerolls, thatīs when players come back to the fishfarms like GE and try to figure out a way, how to beat the system.
Now, unlike other servers, I have done my homework in advance, Iīm not wasting millions on a fruitless attempt to generate self financed traffic, Iīve worked out a different solution. It may take a while to do this all by myself, but sooner or later Iīm getting there. So let me answer the question, what happened to my project with a few facts: 1) My server causes ZERO expenses, I can keep it up forever. 2) I am doing the entire thing all by myself and even though I would apreciate some help, I donīt depend on it, if neccessary I am capable of doing it all alone, just takes longer. 3) Iīm currently negotiating with a few people who offered me a real money license for free, with a bit of luck I might be able to have it up by the end of the year, but if not, there is nothing running away for me, I have all the time in the world to do this right and really make a difference in the end.
> i play every day around 8 to 10 Hours online in > GE/PrimeBackgammon/Play65 and Partygammon. > My Level of play is between Expert and Worldclass (Error rate in > average around 3 snowie). > Usally i have around 50-80 money Games on one day. So I have a few > thousend games archived, and also alot of Matches.
> Software/Client:
> Partygammon: the software there is awful and slow, it substract times > even when you have made your move and just have to wait to hit the done > buttom cause of the delay. Even with the checker moves you have > sometimes delay. Which makes the games slow.
> Ge/Play65...: > The speed there is much better then at Partygammon, but sometimes the > software crashes and have a few bugs.
> Summary for Software: for both in my opinion below average with a small > edge for GE because of the speed. > They shoud both improve their software and boards. The best software i > have seen was on TMG nice Board and speed also good. They should learn > from TMG.
> Aktion/Traffic: > Traffic is much higher in GE/Play65, and a lot of fishes. > Partygammon seems to resign cause they dont do a lot of to bring Players > on their backgammon side. Nowadays only Hgh Roller tournament. No Added > Money. It seems they focus mainly on Poker and Casiono games. > GE/Play65 offers a lot of different tourneys with added Money and > qualification for life Tourneys.
> Rake structure: > GE/Play65 with their rate based rakeing system is too high. And the rake > system is not clear and not easy to find on thier websides. > Partygammon is cheaper but still too high.
> Rating: > Well Rating kills aktion. GE/Play should stop rating system, like > partygammon. Big Edge for Partygammon with no Ratings.
> Resolving unfinished games: > GE: not good solution a lot of players just stop playing and trying to > lower their lose, when they see they dont have good chance to save the > gammon or the game. I personaly prefer Partygammon solution, the Player > who leaves lost. Its simple and clear.
> Cash out: > Partygammon in cashout is just perfekt with neteller for example i > usually have the money in a few hours, very fast and i never had > problems with cashout, its simple perfekt. > GE/Play65: well i just can say very very slow. First you have 3 days for > the cancel possibilty then it takes again a few days until its > processed. In average it takes around 5 to 7 Days until you get your > money. > I have read a lot of Articels here about problems with cashouts in GE. I > can not say anything, cause i always get my money so far.
> Reputation: > Because of the many artikels here, where people complain they didnt get > their money. I usually dont leave big amounts on my Account on GE. I > only leave enough money i realy need. I make immeadly cashouts every > day, because of the reputation. I also heard this in a few live Tourneys > which i visited, so i take it serious. > About Partygammon i never heard about this stuff it seams their > reputation is good.
> Cheating/Rating manipulation: > In Partygammon it seems they dont do anything against it (bots). > In GE Play65 it looks like they do something but its not clear what, > cause the players which have been caught, dont know where their > confiscated money is going to.
> Dices / Game manipulation: > For sure is that both company have the possibilty to manipulate the > outcome of the game, and i think its being used, specially against > profressional and people who have many cashouts.
> SUMMARY: > My perfekt Backgammon Online Playing Side: > -Software like TMG or better and fast > -Cashout like Partygammon > -Traffic and Tournaments like Play65 GE > -Third party Authority wich secures that there is no possibilty for > Manipulation from the Company Side, and resolving problems between > Players and the Companys who run the server. > -clear Rake structure easy to find and lower then it is today > -No Rating System > -Clear for people who cheated and people who was cheated what happens > with the money and what steps > has been taken against the cheater (should be public) > -no house players > -Company should have insurance when they go bankrupt, that the players > get their money, cause generaly > they act like banks
Excellent perceptions and remarks. I do not play as much as you do, and I play mostly on Play65. I used to get very frustrated with players leaving when they were losing or making rude remarks. I began taking screen shots whenever this happened and sending them to support (supp...@play65.com) and they either gave the player a warning or even banned them if it was severe enough or repeated. So I have been seeing a lot less problems like this in recent months. As for the rakes, it's clear they really want players to play against similar- rated players or they hit you pretty hard....that's to keep the sharks from eating up the fish. But I do play a lot of non-money games simply because I like the software, I can download all the matches to Snowie and learn from them, and I get a lot of good, challenging games with opponents who are playing at an Open Level.
a very good place for playing without money is Fibs. You have there a lot of players (only Matches). They have also Tourneys and you can take part at the league. And there are a lot of real good players. Fibs is my first choice when i am training for live tourneys matches. Also you can download your games and analyse it.
> On Jun 29, 6:41 pm, "SharkyFish" <nospam@invalid> wrote: >> Hi all,
>> i play every day around 8 to 10 Hours online in >> GE/PrimeBackgammon/Play65 and Partygammon. >> My Level of play is between Expert and Worldclass (Error rate in >> average around 3 snowie). >> Usally i have around 50-80 money Games on one day. So I have a few >> thousend games archived, and also alot of Matches.
>> Software/Client:
>> Partygammon: the software there is awful and slow, it substract times >> even when you have made your move and just have to wait to hit the done >> buttom cause of the delay. Even with the checker moves you have >> sometimes delay. Which makes the games slow.
>> Ge/Play65...: >> The speed there is much better then at Partygammon, but sometimes the >> software crashes and have a few bugs.
>> Summary for Software: for both in my opinion below average with a small >> edge for GE because of the speed. >> They shoud both improve their software and boards. The best software i >> have seen was on TMG nice Board and speed also good. They should learn >> from TMG.
>> Aktion/Traffic: >> Traffic is much higher in GE/Play65, and a lot of fishes. >> Partygammon seems to resign cause they dont do a lot of to bring Players >> on their backgammon side. Nowadays only Hgh Roller tournament. No Added >> Money. It seems they focus mainly on Poker and Casiono games. >> GE/Play65 offers a lot of different tourneys with added Money and >> qualification for life Tourneys.
>> Rake structure: >> GE/Play65 with their rate based rakeing system is too high. And the rake >> system is not clear and not easy to find on thier websides. >> Partygammon is cheaper but still too high.
>> Rating: >> Well Rating kills aktion. GE/Play should stop rating system, like >> partygammon. Big Edge for Partygammon with no Ratings.
>> Resolving unfinished games: >> GE: not good solution a lot of players just stop playing and trying to >> lower their lose, when they see they dont have good chance to save the >> gammon or the game. I personaly prefer Partygammon solution, the Player >> who leaves lost. Its simple and clear.
>> Cash out: >> Partygammon in cashout is just perfekt with neteller for example i >> usually have the money in a few hours, very fast and i never had >> problems with cashout, its simple perfekt. >> GE/Play65: well i just can say very very slow. First you have 3 days for >> the cancel possibilty then it takes again a few days until its >> processed. In average it takes around 5 to 7 Days until you get your >> money. >> I have read a lot of Articels here about problems with cashouts in GE. I >> can not say anything, cause i always get my money so far.
>> Reputation: >> Because of the many artikels here, where people complain they didnt get >> their money. I usually dont leave big amounts on my Account on GE. I >> only leave enough money i realy need. I make immeadly cashouts every >> day, because of the reputation. I also heard this in a few live Tourneys >> which i visited, so i take it serious. >> About Partygammon i never heard about this stuff it seams their >> reputation is good.
>> Cheating/Rating manipulation: >> In Partygammon it seems they dont do anything against it (bots). >> In GE Play65 it looks like they do something but its not clear what, >> cause the players which have been caught, dont know where their >> confiscated money is going to.
>> Dices / Game manipulation: >> For sure is that both company have the possibilty to manipulate the >> outcome of the game, and i think its being used, specially against >> profressional and people who have many cashouts.
>> SUMMARY: >> My perfekt Backgammon Online Playing Side: >> -Software like TMG or better and fast >> -Cashout like Partygammon >> -Traffic and Tournaments like Play65 GE >> -Third party Authority wich secures that there is no possibilty for >> Manipulation from the Company Side, and resolving problems between >> Players and the Companys who run the server. >> -clear Rake structure easy to find and lower then it is today >> -No Rating System >> -Clear for people who cheated and people who was cheated what happens >> with the money and what steps >> has been taken against the cheater (should be public) >> -no house players >> -Company should have insurance when they go bankrupt, that the players >> get their money, cause generaly >> they act like banks
> Excellent perceptions and remarks. I do not play as much as you do, > and I play mostly on Play65. I used to get very frustrated with > players leaving when they were losing or making rude remarks. I began > taking screen shots whenever this happened and sending them to support > (supp...@play65.com) and they either gave the player a warning or even > banned them if it was severe enough or repeated. So I have been > seeing a lot less problems like this in recent months. As for the > rakes, it's clear they really want players to play against similar- > rated players or they hit you pretty hard....that's to keep the sharks > from eating up the fish. But I do play a lot of non-money games > simply because I like the software, I can download all the matches to > Snowie and learn from them, and I get a lot of good, challenging games > with opponents who are playing at an Open Level.
