Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along with the valves
I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but the far left one is still pretty much solid.
Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be pretty pitted.
At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will come out the bottom, will they?
Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
Gunner
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
> Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be > frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with > the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
> I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but > there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I > can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on > and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear > some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along > with the valves
> I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, > repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of > them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but > the far left one is still pretty much solid.
> Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches > and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball > hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface > rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular > motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be > pretty pitted.
> At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on > blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank > and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will > come out the bottom, will they?
> Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block > and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various > recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
> Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down > this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
> Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
> Gunner
> Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, > illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an > unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the > proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
-- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/
> Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be > frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with > the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
> I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but > there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I > can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on > and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear > some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along > with the valves
> I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, > repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of > them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but > the far left one is still pretty much solid.
> Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches > and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball > hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface > rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular > motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be > pretty pitted.
> At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on > blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank > and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will > come out the bottom, will they?
> Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block > and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various > recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
> Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down > this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
> Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
> Gunner
This is fairly typical damage due to lack of a simple rain hat, many people put a 90 elbow on the top of the exhaust stack to prevent this type of destruction.
It is a little hard to tell without seeing the actual block, but the #1 cylinder seems to have very very serious pitting and will probably require a sleeve or boring (best boring is actually done with a Sunnen power hone) and oversize piston, get guidance from a good engine machinist. I suggest you remove the welding generator and strip the block down for complete cleaning and inspection. I expect you will find the #1 exhaust valve will be rusted and seized and maybe the intake also depending on the cam position.
Warning, Continental parts are not cheap, I suggest you shop carefully.
This may be a good time to consider replacing the engine with a diesel. The current favorite welder in my area is the Red-D-Arc? Lincoln which IIRC has a Kubota? diesel which burns far less fuel. (.44gal/hr IIRC)
> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message > news:7uht64di9m99jevmrss7cc1a8c3o5ere3i@4ax.com... >> Still couldnt get that Continental F-163 engine unfrozen, so had to >> pull the head....yes..it had at one point gotten water in it...
>> Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be >> frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with >> the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
>> I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but >> there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I >> can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
>> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on >> and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear >> some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along >> with the valves
>> I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, >> repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of >> them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but >> the far left one is still pretty much solid.
>> Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches >> and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball >> hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface >> rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular >> motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be >> pretty pitted.
>> At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on >> blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank >> and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will >> come out the bottom, will they?
>> Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block >> and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various >> recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
>> Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down >> this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
>> Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
>> Gunner
> This is fairly typical damage due to lack of a simple rain hat, many > people put a 90 elbow on the top of the exhaust stack to prevent this type > of destruction.
> It is a little hard to tell without seeing the actual block, but the #1 > cylinder seems to have very very serious pitting and will probably require > a sleeve or boring (best boring is actually done with a Sunnen power hone) > and oversize piston, get guidance from a good engine machinist. I suggest > you remove the welding generator and strip the block down for complete > cleaning and inspection. I expect you will find the #1 exhaust valve will > be rusted and seized and maybe the intake also depending on the cam > position.
> Warning, Continental parts are not cheap, I suggest you shop carefully.
> This may be a good time to consider replacing the engine with a diesel. > The current favorite welder in my area is the Red-D-Arc? Lincoln
Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote: > I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but > there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I > can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on > and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear > some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along > with the valves
You can weld on nuts to the studs that are at the surface of the block as well. Using MIG, just place a nut over the broken off stud and fill in the inside hole. It can take a few tries before the stud comes out instead of just breaking the weld when you turn the nut.
You can also use the trick of placing a washer over the stud hole and welding the top of the broken off stud to the washer. That's easier than trying to weld inside a deep nut. Then weld the nut on top of the washer (inside mostly, but outside if you need to as well).
There's also the trick of using paraffin wax to get a rusted bolt out. It's like magic when it works. I've seen it used on oil galley plugs. Plugs that couldn't be budged with massive force, and WD-40 or BP-Blaster and heat came out so easy you could turn them out with your fingers using paraffin wax.
The trick is to heat the stuck bolt with a torch until it's almost red hot, then simply touch the block of wax to the bolt so it melts and wicks down into the threads. Let it cool down until the wax hardens, and then try to turn out the bolt. It comes out so easy it's absolutely shocking. I have no idea why it works.
I don't know where you get paraffin wax. It's used in cooking for chocolate and has been used for sealing caned food so I think you can get it in blocks at some grocery stores. I don't know if it has to be paraffin wax or if it will work with any old type of candle wax. I've only seen it done with paraffin wax.
I've not seen this used for getting broken head studs out, but if I had rusted bolts that weren't coming out with the welded on nut trick and PB Blaster, I'd try it for that as well.
For an engine as badly messed up with rust as the one you are playing with, I'd try the wax trick on anything that was frozen and not coming out.
Gunner Asch wrote: > Still couldnt get that Continental F-163 engine unfrozen, so had to > pull the head....yes..it had at one point gotten water in it...
> Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be > frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with > the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
> I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but > there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I > can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on > and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear > some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along > with the valves
> I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, > repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of > them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but > the far left one is still pretty much solid.
> Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches > and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball > hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface > rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular > motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be > pretty pitted.
> At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on > blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank > and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will > come out the bottom, will they?
> Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block > and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various > recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
> Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down > this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
> Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
> Gunner
> Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, > illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an > unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the > proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Looking at the pictures it looks like #1 will need some repair. Pull the pan and see if you can get the piston to move up, then see if you can get it to go down so you can clean out any rust and crud above it. Then remove it. If the piston is OK and the rest of the bores check out as OK I would probably bore #1 out and sleeve it back to the current size. Then all you would need is a set of rings and gaskets. Being a Continental they are easy to find sleeves that will fit. A LOT of tractors used similar engines. For the boring if you have a way to do large holes you could DIY. Just buy the new sleeve and bore for a press fit. Then freeze the new sleeve and install it. Hone it to ensure it's true and clean up all the swarf. Put it back together and run it. If you don't have the proper boring bar it isn't hard to find them. I have bored a few engines while they were installed. Not real hard as long as you pay attention during the set-up.
For the broken studs, HEAT them up, then stick a cheap candle into the threads, the paraffin will melt and wick into the threads. Then clamp on them and remove them.
> > I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but > > there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I > > can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
> > Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on > > and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear > > some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along > > with the valves
> You can weld on nuts to the studs that are at the surface of the block as > well. Using MIG, just place a nut over the broken off stud and fill in the > inside hole. It can take a few tries before the stud comes out instead of > just breaking the weld when you turn the nut.
> You can also use the trick of placing a washer over the stud hole and > welding the top of the broken off stud to the washer. That's easier than > trying to weld inside a deep nut. Then weld the nut on top of the washer > (inside mostly, but outside if you need to as well).
> There's also the trick of using paraffin wax to get a rusted bolt out. > It's like magic when it works. I've seen it used on oil galley plugs. > Plugs that couldn't be budged with massive force, and WD-40 or BP-Blaster > and heat came out so easy you could turn them out with your fingers using > paraffin wax.
> The trick is to heat the stuck bolt with a torch until it's almost red hot, > then simply touch the block of wax to the bolt so it melts and wicks down > into the threads. Let it cool down until the wax hardens, and then try to > turn out the bolt. It comes out so easy it's absolutely shocking. I have > no idea why it works.
> I don't know where you get paraffin wax. It's used in cooking for > chocolate and has been used for sealing caned food so I think you can get > it in blocks at some grocery stores. I don't know if it has to be paraffin > wax or if it will work with any old type of candle wax. I've only seen it > done with paraffin wax.
Try the grocery store. It is sold with the canning supplies as 'canning wax'. A one pound box was only a couple dollars about three years ago. The box of paraffin I got was made by Gulf Oil. It looks like some True Value hardware stores carry it, as well:
> I've not seen this used for getting broken head studs out, but if I had > rusted bolts that weren't coming out with the welded on nut trick and PB > Blaster, I'd try it for that as well.
> For an engine as badly messed up with rust as the one you are playing with, > I'd try the wax trick on anything that was frozen and not coming out.
>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message >news:7uht64di9m99jevmrss7cc1a8c3o5ere3i@4ax.com... >> Still couldnt get that Continental F-163 engine unfrozen, so had to >> pull the head....yes..it had at one point gotten water in it...
>> Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be >> frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with >> the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
>> I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but >> there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I >> can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
>> Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on >> and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear >> some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along >> with the valves
>> I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, >> repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of >> them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but >> the far left one is still pretty much solid.
>> Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches >> and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball >> hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface >> rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular >> motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be >> pretty pitted.
>> At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on >> blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank >> and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will >> come out the bottom, will they?
>> Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block >> and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various >> recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
>> Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down >> this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
>> Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
>> Gunner
>This is fairly typical damage due to lack of a simple rain hat, many people >put a 90 elbow on the top of the exhaust stack to prevent this type of >destruction.
Oddly enough..this has a big muffler at a 90' angle across the top of the machine, with an additional smaller muffler coming out straight up from one end, with a flapper on top of that.....shrug...the factory muffer took a bit of doing to get it off the verticle pipe from the exhaust manifold.
>It is a little hard to tell without seeing the actual block, but the #1 >cylinder seems to have very very serious pitting and will probably require a >sleeve or boring (best boring is actually done with a Sunnen power hone) and >oversize piston, get guidance from a good engine machinist. I suggest you >remove the welding generator and strip the block down for complete cleaning >and inspection. I expect you will find the #1 exhaust valve will be rusted >and seized and maybe the intake also depending on the cam position.
I cant find much actual pitting , nothing very deep anyways. Now at ring level...brr..that may be nasty, but Ill not know until I can get the pistons out. I assume they have to come out the top? IM not looking forwards to driving that one piston up through the rust on the cylinder wall.
>Warning, Continental parts are not cheap, I suggest you shop carefully.
I will. I have a pretty good network, one of my pool playing buddies is an independant forklift mechanic and will get me the parts at cost from his wholesaler.
>This may be a good time to consider replacing the engine with a diesel. The >current favorite welder in my area is the Red-D-Arc? Lincoln which IIRC has >a Kubota? diesel which burns far less fuel. (.44gal/hr IIRC)
It would be nice..but Ive got $600 in the welder at presnt..and putting another couple grand in the beast is likely more than the old bitch is worth.
But I thank you for your advice.
Gunner
>Good luck, YMMV
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote: >Still couldnt get that Continental F-163 engine unfrozen, so had to >pull the head....yes..it had at one point gotten water in it...
>Nothing seems to be badly damaged...but some valves appear to be >frozen, as well as at least one piston..the worst is #1..the one with >the fluid in the bottom of it in the above pictures.
>I left 5 studs broken off in the block getting the head off...but >there are a fair number of threads standing above the block, that I >can probably weld nuts on them and work them out...Crom..I hope so..
>Any suggestions other than threading on nuts and then welding them on >and hoping the heat loosens them up? I used a pick yesterday to clear >some of the rust around them, and sprayed PBlaster in the gaps..along >with the valves
>I took a chunk of wood, and a hammer and tapped each piston firmly, >repeatedly spraying PBlaster around the sides of the pistons. Two of >them appeared to not be frozen, the third (far right) may be so, but >the far left one is still pretty much solid.
>Cylinder walls on the right one, is smooth, has no ridge, no scratches >and is well polished, may have been honed at one point with a ball >hone..or there is no wear at 2400 hours. Left cylinder has surface >rust, not real thiick and a quick pass with a wire brush in a circular >motion got down to polished wall . Down low...shrug..it may well be >pretty pitted.
>At this point..I think Im going to have to put the machine up on >blocks so I can drop the pan, disconnect the conn rods from the crank >and drive out the pistons from the bottom....I dont think they will >come out the bottom, will they?
>Ill get a fine wire wheel and wire "bob" and do the faces of the block >and the head, and get out the crud and carbon from the various >recesses. Unless someone has a better idea?
>Im not an engine guy...this is the 2nd or 3rd one Ive ever pulled down >this far by myself, fortunately this is a stone simple engine
>Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated
>Gunner
Ugly, but seen worse. Above advice spot on, Get the block out & on a stand/bench. Get it stripped out and hot tank it.
Possibly rig up a hyd jack/press over the stuck piston, . Carefully press down on piston. Seen a brute bust out stuck pistons, try and avoid that.. ED
