I've heard for sometime that the R-22 is harder to fly than the little ultralite Mosquito. This past week end I took a 1/2 hr ride in an R-22. In my opinion the cyclic in the R-22 with its lack of feel or any kind of force feedback is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to adjust to than the Mosquito. Had I tried to lift the R-22 off the grass without the benefit of an instructor, I would probably have rolled it. On the other hand I have soloed two versions of the Mosquito with no trouble. I think I agree with the wags that claim if you can fly the R-22 you can fly anything. It took me about 10 minutes before the instructor felt like leaving his hand off the cyclic. I now have some stick time in several versions of the Bell 47s, a Brantly, 300CB, several different Safaris, two different Mosquitos, a Huey UH-1N and the Hummingbird. To date my pecking order in ease of flight would start with the Huey, then the Mosquito, then the Brantly, then a toss up with the Safaris and the Hummingbird, The Bells and the 300CB and certainly last the R-22. I did like the governor tho.
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:48:38 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > <s...@iwvisp.com> wrote:
>>I've heard for sometime that the R-22 is harder to fly than the little >>ultralite Mosquito. This past week end I took a 1/2 hr ride in an R-22. >>In >>my opinion the cyclic in the R-22 with its lack of feel or any kind of >>force >>feedback is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to adjust to >>than >>the Mosquito. Had I tried to lift the R-22 off the grass without the >>benefit of an instructor, I would probably have rolled it. On the other >>hand I have soloed two versions of the Mosquito with no trouble. I think >>I >>agree with the wags that claim if you can fly the R-22 you can fly >>anything. >>It took me about 10 minutes before the instructor felt like leaving his >>hand >>off the cyclic. I now have some stick time in several versions of the Bell >>47s, a Brantly, 300CB, several different Safaris, two different Mosquitos, >>a >>Huey UH-1N and the Hummingbird. To date my pecking order in ease of >>flight >>would start with the Huey, then the Mosquito, then the Brantly, then a >>toss >>up with the Safaris and the Hummingbird, The Bells and the 300CB and >>certainly last the R-22. >>I did like the governor tho.
> Perhaps you're just not cut out to be a helicopter pilot and as such, > should give me the Baby Belle so it just doesn't sit and collect > dust... :)
Kevin: I am taking your suggestion under consideration. However, I'm kind of slow in digging some of the suggestions out of the consideration box. Yours may take a considerable amount of considering. Stu
> I've heard for sometime that the R-22 is harder to fly than the little > ultralite Mosquito. This past week end I took a 1/2 hr ride in an R-22. > In my opinion the cyclic in the R-22 with its lack of feel or any kind of > force feedback is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to adjust > to than the Mosquito. Had I tried to lift the R-22 off the grass without > the benefit of an instructor, I would probably have rolled it. On the > other hand I have soloed two versions of the Mosquito with no trouble. I > think I agree with the wags that claim if you can fly the R-22 you can fly > anything. It took me about 10 minutes before the instructor felt like > leaving his hand off the cyclic. I now have some stick time in several > versions of the Bell 47s, a Brantly, 300CB, several different Safaris, two > different Mosquitos, a Huey UH-1N and the Hummingbird. To date my pecking > order in ease of flight would start with the Huey, then the Mosquito, then > the Brantly, then a toss up with the Safaris and the Hummingbird, The > Bells and the 300CB and certainly last the R-22. > I did like the governor tho.
> Stu Fields
As simple, inexpensive, reliable and valuable as governors are, I can't believe the are not included on every rotorcraft. It's just makes too much sense.
>"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in >message news:e96124ddb2db0abvkcn73htqqhe73686g3@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:48:38 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" >> <s...@iwvisp.com> wrote:
>>>I've heard for sometime that the R-22 is harder to fly than the little >>>ultralite Mosquito. This past week end I took a 1/2 hr ride in an R-22. >>>In >>>my opinion the cyclic in the R-22 with its lack of feel or any kind of >>>force >>>feedback is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to adjust to >>>than >>>the Mosquito. Had I tried to lift the R-22 off the grass without the >>>benefit of an instructor, I would probably have rolled it. On the other >>>hand I have soloed two versions of the Mosquito with no trouble. I think >>>I >>>agree with the wags that claim if you can fly the R-22 you can fly >>>anything. >>>It took me about 10 minutes before the instructor felt like leaving his >>>hand >>>off the cyclic. I now have some stick time in several versions of the Bell >>>47s, a Brantly, 300CB, several different Safaris, two different Mosquitos, >>>a Huey UH-1N and the Hummingbird. To date my pecking order in ease of >>>flight would start with the Huey, then the Mosquito, then the Brantly, then >>>a toss up with the Safaris and the Hummingbird, The Bells and the 300CB >>>and certainly last the R-22. I did like the governor tho.
>> Perhaps you're just not cut out to be a helicopter pilot and as such, >> should give me the Baby Belle so it just doesn't sit and collect >> dust... :) >Kevin: I am taking your suggestion under consideration. However, I'm kind >of slow in digging some of the suggestions out of the consideration box. >Yours may take a considerable amount of considering. >Stu
I'll exercise the Baby Bell for you while you are making up your mind.
I's nice to seesome ligitimate traffic here. But Belfort noticed it too, and is back :(.
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:13 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > <s...@iwvisp.com> wrote:
>>Kevin: I am taking your suggestion under consideration. However, I'm >>kind >>of slow in digging some of the suggestions out of the consideration box. >>Yours may take a considerable amount of considering. >>Stu
> A simple "Kiss my ass" would have sufficed. :)
Now that is too crude for a magazine editor to use. I have to practice using more words in case we get a shortage of articles and an abundance of space.
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 18:07:46 -0500, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> > wrote:
>>As simple, inexpensive, reliable and valuable as governors are, I can't >>believe the are not included on every rotorcraft. It's just makes too much >>sense.
> The correlator on the Robbies is pretty good.. Flying with the gov > off isn't a whole lot different than with it on...
> One of the Schweizers I fly has a HORRIBLE correlator and you MUST be > good on the throttle to fly this particualr one smoothly.
One bad thing about governors, as witnessed in the turbine pilots trying to fly a non governed ship, is if the governor fails, hey sometimes electronics do fail, you have a real problem if you haven't practiced flying without it and how many practice lazy pilots are out there? All that said, I would like to have a governor when the workload gets high like formation flying for photos, chasing coyotes at low altitude etc. I didn't try flying the R-22 sans governor. I was having all the fun that I wanted trying to adapt to the cyclic. The instructor, trying to be a nice guy, told some stories about ex military pilots checking out in an R-22 and using up quite a few hours. It did make me feel a little better.
> One bad thing about governors, as witnessed in the turbine pilots trying > to fly a non governed ship, is if the governor fails, hey sometimes > electronics do fail, you have a real problem if you haven't practiced > flying without it and how many practice lazy pilots are out there? > All that said, I would like to have a governor when the workload gets high > like formation flying for photos, chasing coyotes at low altitude etc. > I didn't try flying the R-22 sans governor. I was having all the fun that > I wanted trying to adapt to the cyclic. The instructor, trying to be a > nice guy, told some stories about ex military pilots checking out in an > R-22 and using up quite a few hours. It did make me feel a little better.
> Stu
I wouldn't want an electronic governor, mechanical is too easy, and too reliable. When you think of it, we have all owned dozens of them. I've never had one fail.
> > On Tue, 6 May 2008 18:07:46 -0500, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> > > wrote:
> >>As simple, inexpensive, reliable and valuable as governors are, I can't > >>believe the are not included on every rotorcraft. It's just makes too much > >>sense.
> > The correlator on the Robbies is pretty good.. Flying with the gov > > off isn't a whole lot different than with it on...
> > One of the Schweizers I fly has a HORRIBLE correlator and you MUST be > > good on the throttle to fly this particualr one smoothly.
That is why there are EP's (emergency procedures) for governor failure. I have flown a turbine for 10 years without any hint of a governor failure. DUring this time the governor timed out and was rebuilt. I would much rather have a governor and EP's in the unlikely event of a failure than no governor!
> One bad thing about governors, as witnessed in the turbine pilots trying to > fly a non governed ship, is if the governor fails, hey sometimes electronics > do fail, you have a real problem if you haven't practiced flying without it > and how many practice lazy pilots are out there? > All that said, I would like to have a governor when the workload gets high > like formation flying for photos, chasing coyotes at low altitude etc. > I didn't try flying the R-22 sans governor. I was having all the fun that I > wanted trying to adapt to the cyclic. The instructor, trying to be a nice > guy, told some stories about ex military pilots checking out in an R-22 and > using up quite a few hours. It did make me feel a little better.
Hey, Stu, do you ever visit http://www.rotaryforum.com/ ? Lots of gyroplane and helicopter chat going on all the time over there. Right now Stan Foster is chronicling his R-22 lessons as he takes them.
> Hey, Stu, do you ever visit http://www.rotaryforum.com/ ? Lots of > gyroplane and helicopter chat going on all the time over there. Right > now Stan Foster is chronicling his R-22 lessons as he takes them.
> Cheers, > Ed Newbold > Columbus, OH
Ed: I have looked into the rotaryforum every now and then and it is 98% gyrocopters. While we have some anti-social behavior from the "Stuck Wing" crowd, I've also seen some similar behavior from the gyro pilots toward the helicopters. To wit Bensen Days this year negative comments were heard from the gyro people and again at Sun'n Fun. While the new PRA pres wants to get the helos back in the group at Mentone and other events, a number of the gyro folks seem to wish the helos would go away. That said, it seems like, as in the traffic pattern, the helicopters need to do "Right Hand" in the "Left Hand" pattern of the "Stuck Wing" and Gyros. Inspite of helos and gyros both being rotary wing, there is a lot more in common between the "Stuck Wings" and the gyros than between gyros and helos. Traffic patterns and runway needs are the main operational difference. Sun'n Fun operations illuminated a need to separate the gyro operations from the helicopters. Their needs are just different. While the Event operators want everyone to come, there needs to be a little thought about the peaceful co-existence of the different A/C types. This may also be true in forums and NGs. It would make sense to provide some separation for the different types of A/C discussions. I know I'm not too interested in propeller discussions or pre-rotators, brakes and centerline thrust. There are an increasing number of helicopter fly-ins where the helicopters are made to feel welcome. Vertical Challenge, Central Sierra, Utah Helicopter Meet, Homer's, Spurlings, St. Denis in Florida, and a Mosquito based show also in Florida, and Rotorfest in PA as well as some others that I can't remember right now. I've been hoping to find a news group or forum that focused on experimental helicopters. This RAR has in the past been loaded more with the commercial helo operators. I've tried to get some stuff going but I haven't hit the right note yet.
