I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) material.
Background: Here is what I need: - The walls must be 12 feet high - They must be lightweight - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage - The walls should not warp while stored. - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc as needed.
Here are my current thoughts: - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily attach to neighboring sections. - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
The Frame I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
The Panels Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain it?
On Thu, 15 May 2008 22:57:38 +0100, <WilliamMLov...@gmail.com> wrote: > I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my > church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) > material.
> Background: > Here is what I need: > - The walls must be 12 feet high > - They must be lightweight > - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage > - The walls should not warp while stored. > - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc > as needed.
> Here are my current thoughts: > - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This > is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 > foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. > - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily > attach to neighboring sections. > - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
> The Frame > I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to > warp,
It may well be more economic to choose your timber carefully, then it doesn't warp
> I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. > Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and > can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
> The Panels > Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen > corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain > it?
> Thank you
Traditionally one uses heavy canvas. 3mm plywood isn't particularly heavy in 12 x 4 sizes.
WilliamMLov...@gmail.com wrote: > Background: > Here is what I need: > - The walls must be 12 feet high > - They must be lightweight > - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage > - The walls should not warp while stored. > - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc > as needed.
Sounds like as good a description of a standard theatrical flat as I've seen.
> Here are my current thoughts: > - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This > is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 > foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. > - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily > attach to neighboring sections. > - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
So far so good, nothing unusual there.
> The Frame > I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to > warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. > Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and > can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
This is where we'll differ. I can't speak for the others here but I personally use wooden frames for flats. I find it much easier to work with when building the flats and can be worked using standard joinery hand tools (saw, hammer, screwdriver etc.) which is important if you don't have a dedicated workshop available. I consider it easier to work with when assembling and striking sets and as durable as metal but others may have different opinions.
> The Panels > Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen > corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain > it?
You have a couple of choices for this. You can build 'hollywood' flats, which are hard-covered (usually with thin plywood) or standard soft-covered flats (covered with muslin or canvas). There are benefits and drawbacks to both options, though if you are planning to use these long-term I'd suggest the hollywood style may be more durable if slightly heavier. Be aware however that fabric covered flats are preferred by many scene painters, so if you are planning to have scenes painted onto the flats themselves ask the person doing the painting what they prefer before building.
The materials for hollywood flats are readily available from any decent hardware supplier - basically some 3x1" framing and sheets of 1/4" ply. it's simply a rectangular frame of the desired height and width with one or more horizontal bracing struts across it's width.
If you are building soft flats the frame is more critical as it's the only structural strength the finished flat will have. You'll want to use corner braces (triangular pieces of 1/4 ply screwed to the back of each corner), a central horizontal bracing strut and possibly diagonal bracing struts as well. You'll find reasonable diagrams and some guidance here : http://www.northern.edu/wild/th241/sc92.htm
As for suppliers of canvas/muslin, I'm sure others will provide suitable guidance - it's too long since I had to buy any for any advice I could give to be relevant.
> I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my > church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) > material.
> Background: > Here is what I need: > - The walls must be 12 feet high > - They must be lightweight > - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage > - The walls should not warp while stored. > - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc > as needed.
> Here are my current thoughts: > - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This > is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 > foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. > - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily > attach to neighboring sections. > - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
> The Frame > I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to > warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. > Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and > can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
> The Panels > Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen > corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain > it?
> Thank you
Hello.
My first concern is the idea that you want to use aluminum to make the frames. I would highly suggest against this for two reasons. First, aluminum would not be cost efficient. Second, unless you are planning to bolt together the aluminum pieces, you will need to find someone who can weld aluminum. Ultimately, going the route of aluminum would be very difficult, and I wouldn't suggest it.
My suggestion would be to make a Broadway-style hard-covered flat (Another person has replied who describes Hollywood vs. Broadway flats as being hard-covered vs. soft covered (Muslin). He is not entirely correct; Broadway vs. Hollywood deals with the frame, not the panel material). Create these out of 1x4 and 1/4" Lauan plywood. First of all, rip down the 1x4 from 3.5in to 3in (This will save some weight. You can go down to 2.5in, but I would not suggest it for something of long term use). Frame the frame with the 1x4 flat, NOT ON EDGE. I would assume that you are going to use corner blocks and keystones to frame it. Make sure you leave all corner blocks and keystones 1" away from the edge of the flat. This way, if you ever make a 90 degree corner with two of your flats, they will mesh flush and not have the blocks and stones in the way. Use 1/4" Lauan to cover the panel. Be sure to have a toggle at the seam where the 8' piece and the 4' piece meet. Glue and screw (or staple) the Lauan to the frame.
Do not worry about weight. One strong person or two middle strength people can carry one of these. Depending on the humidity, weather, and how the flats are stored, warping may or may not occur. If you pay special attention to the quality of wood you buy and the construction of the flats, you should have little or no problems storing them almost anywhere.
<Daniel.Ung...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 15, 5:57 pm, WilliamMLov...@gmail.com wrote: >> I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my >> church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) >> material.
>> Background: >> Here is what I need: >> - The walls must be 12 feet high >> - They must be lightweight >> - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage >> - The walls should not warp while stored. >> - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc >> as needed.
>> Here are my current thoughts: >> - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This >> is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 >> foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. >> - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily >> attach to neighboring sections. >> - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
>> The Frame >> I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to >> warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. >> Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and >> can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
>> The Panels >> Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen >> corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
>> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain >> it?
>> Thank you
> Hello.
> My first concern is the idea that you want to use aluminum to make the > frames. I would highly suggest against this for two reasons. First, > aluminum would not be cost efficient. Second, unless you are planning > to bolt together the aluminum pieces, you will need to find someone > who can weld aluminum. Ultimately, going the route of aluminum would > be very difficult, and I wouldn't suggest it.
> My suggestion would be to make a Broadway-style hard-covered flat > (Another person has replied who describes Hollywood vs. Broadway flats > as being hard-covered vs. soft covered (Muslin). He is not entirely > correct; Broadway vs. Hollywood deals with the frame, not the panel > material). Create these out of 1x4 and 1/4" Lauan plywood. First of > all, rip down the 1x4 from 3.5in to 3in (This will save some weight. > You can go down to 2.5in, but I would not suggest it for something of > long term use). Frame the frame with the 1x4 flat, NOT ON EDGE. I > would assume that you are going to use corner blocks and keystones to > frame it. Make sure you leave all corner blocks and keystones 1" away > from the edge of the flat. This way, if you ever make a 90 degree > corner with two of your flats, they will mesh flush and not have the > blocks and stones in the way. Use 1/4" Lauan to cover the panel. Be > sure to have a toggle at the seam where the 8' piece and the 4' piece > meet. Glue and screw (or staple) the Lauan to the frame.
> Do not worry about weight. One strong person or two middle strength > people can carry one of these. Depending on the humidity, weather, > and how the flats are stored, warping may or may not occur. If you > pay special attention to the quality of wood you buy and the > construction of the flats, you should have little or no problems > storing them almost anywhere.
Or use 1/8" ply, & double skin the central 4' of the flat, very stiff , you can still clamp them together easily & lighter.
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:25:59 +0100, Daniel Ungard
> <Daniel.Ung...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On May 15, 5:57 pm, WilliamMLov...@gmail.com wrote: > >> I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my > >> church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) > >> material.
> >> Background: > >> Here is what I need: > >> - The walls must be 12 feet high > >> - They must be lightweight > >> - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage > >> - The walls should not warp while stored. > >> - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam etc > >> as needed.
> >> Here are my current thoughts: > >> - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This > >> is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 > >> foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. > >> - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily > >> attach to neighboring sections. > >> - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
> >> The Frame > >> I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends to > >> warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. > >> Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light and > >> can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
> >> The Panels > >> Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen > >> corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
> >> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain > >> it?
> >> Thank you
> > Hello.
> > My first concern is the idea that you want to use aluminum to make the > > frames. I would highly suggest against this for two reasons. First, > > aluminum would not be cost efficient. Second, unless you are planning > > to bolt together the aluminum pieces, you will need to find someone > > who can weld aluminum. Ultimately, going the route of aluminum would > > be very difficult, and I wouldn't suggest it.
> > My suggestion would be to make a Broadway-style hard-covered flat > > (Another person has replied who describes Hollywood vs. Broadway flats > > as being hard-covered vs. soft covered (Muslin). He is not entirely > > correct; Broadway vs. Hollywood deals with the frame, not the panel > > material). Create these out of 1x4 and 1/4" Lauan plywood. First of > > all, rip down the 1x4 from 3.5in to 3in (This will save some weight. > > You can go down to 2.5in, but I would not suggest it for something of > > long term use). Frame the frame with the 1x4 flat, NOT ON EDGE. I > > would assume that you are going to use corner blocks and keystones to > > frame it. Make sure you leave all corner blocks and keystones 1" away > > from the edge of the flat. This way, if you ever make a 90 degree > > corner with two of your flats, they will mesh flush and not have the > > blocks and stones in the way. Use 1/4" Lauan to cover the panel. Be > > sure to have a toggle at the seam where the 8' piece and the 4' piece > > meet. Glue and screw (or staple) the Lauan to the frame.
> > Do not worry about weight. One strong person or two middle strength > > people can carry one of these. Depending on the humidity, weather, > > and how the flats are stored, warping may or may not occur. If you > > pay special attention to the quality of wood you buy and the > > construction of the flats, you should have little or no problems > > storing them almost anywhere.
> Or use 1/8" ply, & double skin the central 4' of the flat, very stiff , > you can still clamp them together easily & lighter.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
All these posts are very helpful.
I did not know about 1/8 plywood Thanks for the tip.
"Double skin" would mean putting Canvas or plywood on both sides of your flat. Instead of plywood you could also use 1/2" masonite, or hard board one side finished. I have them fin the past for my flat skins and I have found our flats to be a little bit lighter.
> "Double skin" would mean putting Canvas or plywood on both sides of > your flat. Instead of plywood you could also use 1/2" masonite, or > hard board one side finished. I have them fin the past for my flat > skins and I have found our flats to be a little bit lighter.
1/2" Maso??????
It'll weigh a ton, even if you use 1/8" Maso and require half a dozen strong men to pick up a 4 x 12 (Or 12 x 4 in the UK) flat. Besides, thin Maso is a not very strong and is easy to punch holes into.
Use 4 x 8 (Or 8 x 4 if in UK) 1/8" doorskin/skin-ply/mahogany for the skin.
On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:04:27 +0100, <WilliamMLov...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 16, 7:51 am, "Duncan Wood" <bodged...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote: >> On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:25:59 +0100, Daniel Ungard
>> <Daniel.Ung...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On May 15, 5:57 pm, WilliamMLov...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> I want to build light weight walls for a theatre production at my >> >> church. I am looking for suggestions for the wall surface (panel) >> >> material.
>> >> Background: >> >> Here is what I need: >> >> - The walls must be 12 feet high >> >> - They must be lightweight >> >> - They must be easy to setup and teardown and move to storage >> >> - The walls should not warp while stored. >> >> - The walls will be decorated will various things like paint, foam >> etc >> >> as needed.
>> >> Here are my current thoughts: >> >> - I am thinking of building walls in 12 feet by 4 feet sections. This >> >> is a manageable size and materials are often sold in 4 by 4 or 8 by 4 >> >> foot sections so 12 by 4 should be easy to construct. >> >> - I plan to join wall sections together so each section should easily >> >> attach to neighboring sections. >> >> - I am thinking of some sort of panel material attached to a frame.
>> >> The Frame >> >> I think I have found satisfactory frame materials. Since wood tends >> to >> >> warp, I am thinking of angle aluminum or "slotted" angle steel. >> >> Slotted steel has many holes predrilled in it so it is quite light >> and >> >> can be easily bolted to the neighboring sections.
>> >> The Panels >> >> Here is where I need help. Normal plywood is too heavy. I have seen >> >> corrogated plastic. This has some value but seems flinsy.
>> >> Can anyone suggest other possible panel material and how I can optain >> >> it?
>> >> Thank you
>> > Hello.
>> > My first concern is the idea that you want to use aluminum to make the >> > frames. I would highly suggest against this for two reasons. First, >> > aluminum would not be cost efficient. Second, unless you are planning >> > to bolt together the aluminum pieces, you will need to find someone >> > who can weld aluminum. Ultimately, going the route of aluminum would >> > be very difficult, and I wouldn't suggest it.
>> > My suggestion would be to make a Broadway-style hard-covered flat >> > (Another person has replied who describes Hollywood vs. Broadway flats >> > as being hard-covered vs. soft covered (Muslin). He is not entirely >> > correct; Broadway vs. Hollywood deals with the frame, not the panel >> > material). Create these out of 1x4 and 1/4" Lauan plywood. First of >> > all, rip down the 1x4 from 3.5in to 3in (This will save some weight. >> > You can go down to 2.5in, but I would not suggest it for something of >> > long term use). Frame the frame with the 1x4 flat, NOT ON EDGE. I >> > would assume that you are going to use corner blocks and keystones to >> > frame it. Make sure you leave all corner blocks and keystones 1" away >> > from the edge of the flat. This way, if you ever make a 90 degree >> > corner with two of your flats, they will mesh flush and not have the >> > blocks and stones in the way. Use 1/4" Lauan to cover the panel. Be >> > sure to have a toggle at the seam where the 8' piece and the 4' piece >> > meet. Glue and screw (or staple) the Lauan to the frame.
>> > Do not worry about weight. One strong person or two middle strength >> > people can carry one of these. Depending on the humidity, weather, >> > and how the flats are stored, warping may or may not occur. If you >> > pay special attention to the quality of wood you buy and the >> > construction of the flats, you should have little or no problems >> > storing them almost anywhere.
>> Or use 1/8" ply, & double skin the central 4' of the flat, very stiff , >> >> you can still clamp them together easily & lighter.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> All these posts are very helpful.
> I did not know about 1/8 plywood Thanks for the tip.
> Question: what do you mean by "double skin"
Apply the skin to both faces of the flat. It makes a somewhat siffer in bending & far stiffer in torsion flat. If you're double skinning only part of it then you need to recess the frame at that point if you want to clamp them at right angles but it makes setting them up & taking them down far easier.
