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Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
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Erik J. Helgesen  
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 More options Jun 8, 6:38 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Erik J. Helgesen <gamle_e...@hell.no>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:38:48 +0200
Local: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:38 am
Subject: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13782-religion-a-figment-of-hum...

Humans alone practice religion because they're the only creatures
to have evolved imagination. That's the argument of anthropologist
Maurice Bloch of the London School of Economics.

Bloch challenges the popular notion that religion evolved and spread
because it promoted social bonding, as has been argued by some
anthropologists. Instead, he argues that first, we had to evolve the
necessary brain architecture to imagine things and beings that don't
physically exist, and the possibility that people somehow live on
after they've died.

Once we'd done that, we had access to a form of social interaction
unavailable to any other creatures on the planet. Uniquely, humans
could use what Bloch calls the "transcendental social" to unify with
groups, such as nations and clans, or even with imaginary groups such
as the dead. The transcendental social also allows humans to follow
the idealised codes of conduct associated with religion.

"What the transcendental social requires is the ability to live very
largely in the imagination," Bloch writes.

Mer info:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2008.0007

--
Erik

Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
Let a man overcome anger by love, evil by good,
the greedy by liberality, the liar by truth.
-- Buddha


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Helge Moiseth  
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 More options Jun 8, 2:05 pm
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion
Followup-To: no.test
From: Helge Moiseth <helgemois...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:05:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:38:48 +0200, Erik J. Helgesen

Intéressant, mais pourquoi pas le poste sur le norvégien?

--
Helge Moiseth


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Øyvind Segrov  
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 More options Jun 8, 5:28 pm
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:28:15 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 8 2008 5:28 pm
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 8, 12:38 pm, Erik J. Helgesen <gamle_e...@hell.no> wrote:

> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13782-religion-a-figment-of-hum...

> Humans alone practice religion because they're the only creatures
> to have evolved imagination. That's the argument of anthropologist
> Maurice Bloch of the London School of Economics.

Hei, takk for lenke

ville bare påpeke at "imagine" og "imagination" ikke er direkte
oversettbart med fantasi, men i dette tilfelle snarere med
"forestillingsevne". I praksis betyr det at en person med fantasi
dikter fritt, mens en person med forestillingsevne, kan visualisere
ting som ikke finnes, og er et nyttig redskap for alle som skal
planlegge litt.


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TBC  
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 More options Jun 8, 6:51 pm
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: TBC <-sut...@2night.dk>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 15:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:51 pm
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On 8 Jun., 12:38, Erik J. Helgesen <gamle_e...@hell.no> wrote:

> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13782-religion-a-figment-of-hum...

> Humans alone practice religion because they're the only creatures
> to have evolved imagination.

Det var dog en til sammenligning nærmest helt befriende rar dom til en
forandring, sammenlignet med udsagnende fra mange andre og efterhånden
desværre meget insisterende og nedladende mono ontologiske
materialister, som vi troende ofte er både ynkede og forhadte af.

Med dette synspunkt kan vi igen få lov til at være religiøse, ikke
fordi vi som sædvanligt og forhadte kendes at være røvsyge lallende
forrykte idioter, men blot, og netop fordi, vi tilhører gruppen af det
kognitivt mest udviklede dyr i skoven.

TBC


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Shapescare  
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 More options Jun 9, 1:08 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 22:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 1:08 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On 8 Jun, 23:28, Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Og siden "forestillingsevnen" er individets eiendom, ser vi at også
gudenes egenskaper og religionenes "faktagrunnlag" er individets
eiendom.
 Derfor har vi utallige religioner, og hver av de utallige religionene
har utallige sekter.

Hadde vi hatt èn objektiv, faktisk eksisterende gud, hadde vi ikke
trengt å ty til "forestillingsevnen" for å erfare ham (eller henne).


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Øyvind Segrov  
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 More options Jun 9, 2:23 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:23:28 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 2:23 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 9, 7:08 am, Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Har noen fortalt deg at du forestiller deg mye rart?

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Shapescare  
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 More options Jun 9, 2:33 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 2:33 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 9, 8:23 am, Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Akkurat nå forestiller jeg meg at du prøver å dreie temaet fra sak til
person.

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Øyvind Segrov  
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 More options Jun 9, 4:13 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 01:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 4:13 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 9, 8:33 am, Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com> wrote:

:)

Men siden forestillingen din er "individets eiendom" og dermed ikke
objektiv,faktisk, eksisterende, etc.. Detyr det at du har rett eller
tar feil?


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Shapescare  
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 More options Jun 9, 5:03 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 02:03:07 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 5:03 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 9, 10:13 am, Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Det er mulig at jeg tar feil, for jeg uttalte meg bombastisk.
Det KAN ikke utelukkes at èn av de mange millioner av subjektive
forestillinger om "guds vesen" faktisk korresponderer med de objektive
faktiske forhold.
Men - min forestillingsevne er ikke stek nok til at jeg kan basere
mitt moralsystem på en slik antakelse.

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Øyvind Segrov  
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 More options Jun 9, 5:44 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: Øyvind Segrov <seg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 02:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 5:44 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?
On Jun 9, 11:03 am, Shapescare <farentilma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Men du hadde rett i forestillingen om at jeg drev debatten fra sak til
person, så det er meget mulig at du fikk den forestillingen av en god
grunn... ;)

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Terje Henriksen  
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 More options Jun 9, 11:33 am
Newsgroups: no.fag.diverse, no.alt.diskusjoner, no.samfunn.religion, dk.livssyn.kristendom
From: "Terje Henriksen" <terni...@online.no>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:33:04 +0200
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2008 11:33 am
Subject: Re: Religion - et resultat av menneskets fantasi?