> You need to do some research on psychology. You really need to be > looking at the person and their ability, not at the fact they strongly > dislike Bovril and have a passion for Sushi.
To me, a person is defined in large parts by their likes and dislikes. It reflects their view on the world and in turn their cultural fit in an organization. Some preferences are more relevant than others, so while sharing food preferences would perhaps make it easier to gel for lunch breaks, your choice of computing environment tells me something about your approach to software development.
For the type of applications 37signals (and others in the same sphere) pursue, Apple are on many fronts a role model. The shared appreciation of Apple's products is an important component of the company culture. Just like a shared appreciation of the open source benefits is an important component.
The mash of shared values, aspirations, and appreciations creates a unity that makes it easier to operate efficiently. We can communicate by alluding to references and settle arguments by drawing on authoritarian examples.
As such, I'm a bit surprised by the apparent controversial nature of the original posting. Sure, it was worded with enough sting to likely cause a reaction. But that 37signals, and companies in general, base hiring decisions on a sound technical/cultural/political fit surprise me to come as a surprise.
While raw programming talent most certainly is an important facet of the hiring game, it is by far not the only one. Or even the most important one. I'd take a good programmer with a good fit on the three axis as described above any day over a superstar with a bad fit.
> Rails will be bigger and better with a strong Windows community. As > will any other OSS. Given you claim there is a political stance in > your choice, your choice is actively working against the widest > possible adoption of OSS.
I heartily welcome a strong Windows community on Rails. In part because I see getting on Rails as a great way of in turn getting people onto OS X/'nix. Just as I see getting on Rails as an introduction to Ruby.
And while being on Windows doesn't help your chances getting a job at 37signals, it doesn't mean that I devalue your clever patches or other contributions to Rails. I believe you would be a happier and more productive participant if you were doing it from a platform like OS X, but if that's not in the cards (for lack of funds, corporate policies, or whatever), I'll cope.
In other words, to use or contribute to Rails doesn't require as close a TCP fit as I would demand from a coworker. I believe you're going to have a more enjoyable ride in that community if the fit _is_ closer, but it's not a permission pass.
As an example of good fit, I don't think it's a surprise that pretty much all of the Rails core contributors are Mac users. That Rails heavy shops like Robot Coop (43 Things), Combustion Labs, and others are using Macs. Of course they didn't have to, but it was a natural fit.
> For some, most appropriate may include a quasi-political stance, which > seems to be your case. Don't make the mistake that everyone makes > software decisions on those lines.
Oh, I know they don't. The market share of the predominate OS in the world hasn't eluded me :). I am saying that I have a much harder time relating to (and in some cases understanding) people who choose that path.
> Final comment. Why didn't you write something intelligible like the > posting you made here rather than the stuff on the blog that caused > this bother?
The conclusions you choose to draw from a handful of paragraphs in a blog posting are your own. But okay, I concede that a longer posting not written at 4:22 AM would have had a larger chance of explaining my position in full. I don't know if it would have caused less of a stir, but perhaps there would have been fewer questions about motives.
I also readily concede the provocative nature of the posting. I believe that the way forward consists of both some rubbing against and with the furs. Since my threshold on personal attacks (arrogant, stupid, stubborn, childish, ridiculous) is pretty high, I'm okay taking aggressive push-back on controversial stances.
And there's nothing like a spring cleansing :). Just as the temperatures in Denmark are rising from just a couple into the tens. A change of season. Maybe you should consider the occasion ripe to do a chance of computing environment? I know this great platform... oh, wait. My evangelistic record looped. Sorry about that. Should be at least 3 months before we try a replay from a different angle. -- David Heinemeier Hansson, http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management http://www.rubyonrails.org/ -- Web-application framework for Ruby http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
David Heinemeier Hansson wrote: >> You need to do some research on psychology. You really need to be >> looking at the person and their ability, not at the fact they strongly >> dislike Bovril and have a passion for Sushi.
> To me, a person is defined in large parts by their likes and dislikes. > It reflects their view on the world and in turn their cultural fit in an > organization. Some preferences are more relevant than others, so while > sharing food preferences would perhaps make it easier to gel for lunch > breaks, your choice of computing environment tells me something about > your approach to software development.
> For the type of applications 37signals (and others in the same sphere) > pursue, Apple are on many fronts a role model. The shared appreciation > of Apple's products is an important component of the company culture. > Just like a shared appreciation of the open source benefits is an > important component.
> The mash of shared values, aspirations, and appreciations creates a > unity that makes it easier to operate efficiently. We can communicate by > alluding to references and settle arguments by drawing on authoritarian > examples.
> As such, I'm a bit surprised by the apparent controversial nature of the > original posting. Sure, it was worded with enough sting to likely cause > a reaction. But that 37signals, and companies in general, base hiring > decisions on a sound technical/cultural/political fit surprise me to > come as a surprise.
> While raw programming talent most certainly is an important facet of the > hiring game, it is by far not the only one. Or even the most important > one. I'd take a good programmer with a good fit on the three axis as > described above any day over a superstar with a bad fit.
>> Rails will be bigger and better with a strong Windows community. As >> will any other OSS. Given you claim there is a political stance in >> your choice, your choice is actively working against the widest >> possible adoption of OSS.
> I heartily welcome a strong Windows community on Rails. In part because > I see getting on Rails as a great way of in turn getting people onto OS > X/'nix. Just as I see getting on Rails as an introduction to Ruby.
> And while being on Windows doesn't help your chances getting a job at > 37signals, it doesn't mean that I devalue your clever patches or other > contributions to Rails. I believe you would be a happier and more > productive participant if you were doing it from a platform like OS X, > but if that's not in the cards (for lack of funds, corporate policies, > or whatever), I'll cope.
> In other words, to use or contribute to Rails doesn't require as close a > TCP fit as I would demand from a coworker. I believe you're going to > have a more enjoyable ride in that community if the fit _is_ closer, but > it's not a permission pass.
> As an example of good fit, I don't think it's a surprise that pretty > much all of the Rails core contributors are Mac users. That Rails heavy > shops like Robot Coop (43 Things), Combustion Labs, and others are using > Macs. Of course they didn't have to, but it was a natural fit.
>> For some, most appropriate may include a quasi-political stance, which >> seems to be your case. Don't make the mistake that everyone makes >> software decisions on those lines.
> Oh, I know they don't. The market share of the predominate OS in the > world hasn't eluded me :). I am saying that I have a much harder time > relating to (and in some cases understanding) people who choose that path.
>> Final comment. Why didn't you write something intelligible like the >> posting you made here rather than the stuff on the blog that caused >> this bother?
> The conclusions you choose to draw from a handful of paragraphs in a > blog posting are your own. But okay, I concede that a longer posting not > written at 4:22 AM would have had a larger chance of explaining my > position in full. I don't know if it would have caused less of a stir, > but perhaps there would have been fewer questions about motives.
> I also readily concede the provocative nature of the posting. I believe > that the way forward consists of both some rubbing against and with the > furs. Since my threshold on personal attacks (arrogant, stupid, > stubborn, childish, ridiculous) is pretty high, I'm okay taking > aggressive push-back on controversial stances.
> And there's nothing like a spring cleansing :). Just as the temperatures > in Denmark are rising from just a couple into the tens. A change of > season. Maybe you should consider the occasion ripe to do a chance of > computing environment? I know this great platform... oh, wait. My > evangelistic record looped. Sorry about that. Should be at least 3 > months before we try a replay from a different angle. > -- > David Heinemeier Hansson, > http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management > http://www.rubyonrails.org/ -- Web-application framework for Ruby > http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
On Thursday 31 March 2005 14:14, gabriele renzi wrote:
> Mark Probert ha scritto:
> > The "everything is a file" is a *nix mantra. The original MacOS wasn't > > like that at all.
> sorry, but is'nt winNT based on the everything is a object?
I am not sure, however I seem to recall that it was developed more along the lines of the VAX VMS than Unix. I think that BeOS is another object OS, though I am not sure of that either.
In article <51445b392fe809199199e4fe9f5aa...@loudthinking.com>, da...@loudthinking.com says...
> As an example of good fit, I don't think it's a surprise that pretty > much all of the Rails core contributors are Mac users.
Darn it.. you're going to make me contribute just to prove you wrong, aren't you?
-- Jay Levitt | Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
> Identify the statement that isn't true. Overpriced: Lots of others have > given examples. The other two statements are facts.
Disclaimer: I develop on Windows, OS X, and Linux... All three have characteristics I like, and dislike...
It's true Macs ship with a one-button mouse. But I have a two-button Logitech w/ scroll wheel hooked up to the Mac here... both buttons + the scroll wheel are functional. (So if one can afford $15 for a third party mouse, the one- button thing is a non-issue.)
Regarding the degree to which Macs are a proprietary system: I do like that their operating system core is Open Source. I think that's pretty cool. ( http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/darwin/ ) ( download source: rsync -vL "darwinsource.opendarwin.org::darwinsource/10.3.8/*.tar.gz" ./ )
So to me that makes OS X significantly less proprietary than Windows. (At least as far as software goes. Maybe you were referring to hardware.)
In any case, ..... MY AMIGA CAN BEAT UP YOUR ATARI-ST !!!
>> As an example of good fit, I don't think it's a surprise that pretty >> much all of the Rails core contributors are Mac users.
> Darn it.. you're going to make me contribute just to prove you wrong, > aren't you?
Actually, we have a ton of patches coming from Windows users. But please do join the party :).
By core, I was referring to people like Jeremy Kemper, Tobias Luekte, Florian Weber, Sam Stephenson, Jamis Buck, and Scott Baron that all have contributed substantial and continued parts of Rails. Enough to be considered core contributors.
They are not the only core contributors, though. People like Marcel Molina and Nicholas Seckar are contributing from Linux. And we've had plenty of big and important patches from Windows users too. Not just code, but people like Curt Hibbs have been doing a great job documenting/evangelizing.
So. Again. I don't hate Windows people :). I just don't understand the willful choice of that operating system in the defined context. And I'd wish more of them would switch.
> On Thursday 31 March 2005 11:31, Dick Davies wrote:
[ on as-400s ]
> > But they don't 'wield them', do they? Not unless they're the size of king > > kong, at least. > Taken an axe to them is close :-)
You'd be there a while :) I wish I could remember the origins of the quote I heard somewhere during an 'intel/amd clock cycle pissing contest' somewhere on usenet. Some grizzled vet piped up with:
"They're not real computers. A real computer is one that would kill you if it fell on you"
-- 'The heroes claimed that they did care about people getting shot, so they crashed their cars into them instead.' -- DNA, on 'Starsky and Hutch' Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
Stephen Kellett <sn...@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote: > You need to do some research on psychology. You really need to be > looking at the person and their ability, not at the fact they strongly > dislike Bovril and have a passion for Sushi.
Personally, I hate Sushi. Well, I've never eaten nor tasted it... so I guess I really only hate the idea of it. I mean, raw fish? Gross! That's bad enough but stuffing it with nutritionally deficient rice for filler? The only redeeming part is the seaweed, IMHO.
Just looked up Bovril and it sounds just as disgusting!
On the other hand, I quite like Ruby...
Cheers, Navin.
/me wonders what his job prospects in Japan are now... ;-)
In message <200503311436.49924.probe...@acm.org>, Mark Probert <probe...@acm.org> writes
>I am not sure, however I seem to recall that it was developed more along the >lines of the VAX VMS than Unix.
Dave Cutler was the architect for VMS and NT. Under the Win32 API, pretty much everything is an object. This is exposed at the API level by handles to the objects. Probably better considered as object-based rather than object oriented.
