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sandos  
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 More options Apr 15, 5:31 am
From: sandos <sop...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Apr 15 2008 5:31 am
Subject: General thoughts on strenghts and weaknesses
I have to say I think Byecycle is a very promising project. I have
tried STAN4J, ispace, jdepend and metrics eclipse plugin for
visualizing depedencies in eclipse.

Now, STAN4J is commercial and very good. Easy to use, intuitive.
Easily wins in the ease-of-use department. ispace is awesome, it is
like STAN4J only better, but also a bit more work to use. Jdepends and
metrics are really not comparable to the others in my opinion, JDepend
does not have a graphical view of things, and the metrics one is not
very good.

I have been running these on a fairly large codebase (700kloc) and I
have to say byecycle is the one that shines here, simply because it
doesn't try to pull everything in at once. It is also of course a
downside, since I cannot see the overall picture in enough detail
always: ispace can "drill down" on either side of a dependency, all
the way down to method level! That is simply awesome.

So, the two problematic areas in byecycle is firstly detail-level,
drilling-down ability. Secondly it is the fact that the graph layout
algorithm is not very good. It is decent, but not good. I've tried
both 0.1 and SVN, and can hardly see a difference. There are two sub-
problems here, too: First is that I do NOT want to wait for an
algorithm to layout stuff. Please, I have better things to do. I would
like to either see the graph layout being done before viewing, with a
progress-bar or atleast much more coarsely in the beginning. The
second problem is that the graps are often very tangled, and I simply
want to move a node to "help" the algorithm along. Metrics plugin
actually allows this to some degree and it sometimes produces better
graphs.

I've seen the problem with scrollbars, and I don't know SWT so can't
really help there. To be honest, I think scrolling is overrated for
these kind of things. Adjusting the number of nodes and layout to fit
the window would be a very much cooler idea. ;)

Hopefully I will be able to contribute atleast something in the
future, but don't hold your breath :)

---
John Bäckstrand


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Klaus Wuestefeld  
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 More options Apr 15, 1:48 pm
From: "Klaus Wuestefeld" <klauswuestef...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:48:22 -0300
Local: Tues, Apr 15 2008 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Byecycle] General thoughts on strenghts and weaknesses
Hey! Thanks for the feedback.

I comment below...

>  I have been running these on a fairly large codebase (700kloc) and I
>  have to say byecycle is the one that shines here, simply because it
>  doesn't try to pull everything in at once. It is also of course a
>  downside, since I cannot see the overall picture in enough detail
>  always: ispace can "drill down" on either side of a dependency, all
>  the way down to method level! That is simply awesome.

My idea is to replace eclipse's package explorer entirely. You would
start off seeing a graph with all your projects and their
inter-dependencies. You would then be able to drill down to package,
class and method level. This is not really a big deal to build, just
some more visiting in Eclipse's Abstract Syntax Tree.

With that in place, it makes sense to remove the external package
dependencies that show up in byecycle, removing A LOT of clutter from
the diagrams.

>  So, the two problematic areas in byecycle is firstly detail-level,
>  drilling-down ability. Secondly it is the fact that the graph layout
>  algorithm is not very good. It is decent, but not good. I've tried
>  both 0.1 and SVN, and can hardly see a difference. There are two sub-
>  problems here, too: First is that I do NOT want to wait for an
>  algorithm to layout stuff. Please, I have better things to do. I would
>  like to either see the graph layout being done before viewing

Can be easily done. Its a line of code to comment.

> , with a
>  progress-bar or atleast much more coarsely in the beginning.
> The
>  second problem is that the graps are often very tangled, and I simply
>  want to move a node to "help" the algorithm along.

Can be easily done.

> Metrics plugin
>  actually allows this to some degree and it sometimes produces better
>  graphs.

>  I've seen the problem with scrollbars, and I don't know SWT so can't
>  really help there. To be honest, I think scrolling is overrated for
>  these kind of things. Adjusting the number of nodes and layout to fit
>  the window would be a very much cooler idea. ;)

Adjust the number of nodes? How?

>  Hopefully I will be able to contribute atleast something in the
>  future, but don't hold your breath :)

Many very easy and cool things to do in byecycle.

I am focusing my efforts on Sneer, the sovereign computing platform,
though. Let us know when you're ready to help.

See you, Klaus.


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