(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: > Good evening, everyone. I've been reading this newsgroups for a while, > and am facinated by what I have seen. I have chosenn now to delurk and come to > you with a question. What, if any, is the traditional relationship between > the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there > any relatioship at all in the mythologies? > Thank you for help with this question--perhaps the first of many to aid > in my understand of these creatures. > John
Good darned question! Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted them. Depends on the individuals in question. Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not always true, but is generally the norm. These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this point of view). I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies. Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have their... "monsters".
Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around. Entertaining sorts.
But that's just me. Th' Elf
-- I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook
In article <DMC7Gy....@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) says:
> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: >> What, if any, is the traditional relationship between >> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there >> any relatioship at all in the mythologies? >> [snipples] >> John
>Good darned question! >Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as >members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain >other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted >them. Depends on the individuals in question.
It was always my understanding that the faeriekind and the vampyres were actually of the same ilk (different branches of the family tree). I know plenty of faeriekinds who prey on humans...
>Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do >really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly >glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not >always true, but is generally the norm.
Actually, Dreamers, who are half-mortal, are very sought-after by the original purebloods. And we are ill-equipped to fight 'em off.
>These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety >and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their >solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this >point of view).
Yes, the Vampyre and the Faerie are cousin and sibling both.
>I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at >the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies. >Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have >their... "monsters".
>Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around. >Entertaining sorts.
You said it, elvish one. If little else, vampies and otherkind have their extreme eccentricity in common. ;)
>But that's just me. >Th' Elf
You and your Dreamer, elvish one. -little o (aka Van*&*)
>In article <DMC7Gy....@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) says: >> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: >>> What, if any, is the traditional relationship between >>> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there >>> any relatioship at all in the mythologies? >>> [snipples] >>> John
>>Good darned question! >>Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as >>members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain >>other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted >>them. Depends on the individuals in question. >It was always my understanding that the faeriekind and the vampyres >were actually of the same ilk (different branches of the family tree). >I know plenty of faeriekinds who prey on humans...
Traditionally, the Wild Hunt is also affiliated with the Seelie Courts although there is the odd Unseelie Hunter. One is a Hunter within one's spirit, not one's court affiliations. There was a time, to be honest, when I and my kind would have hunted true vamps did we find them...which I must admit, if I do know any they have not outed themselves to me, and I never pry. But in modern times the old court affiliations are becoming blurred. Personally, I do not hunt vamps and I consider them friends and Otherkin as well, Otherkin being the general term by which fae folke refer to themselves.
>>Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do >>really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly >>glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not >>always true, but is generally the norm. >Actually, Dreamers, who are half-mortal, are very sought-after by the >original purebloods. And we are ill-equipped to fight 'em off.
*smile* Imagine a psivamp fool enough to leech an elf. Vandale, one day dearest we shall have to teach you trapshields.
>>These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety >>and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their >>solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this >>point of view). >Yes, the Vampyre and the Faerie are cousin and sibling both.
*nods*
>>I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at >>the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies. >>Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have >>their... "monsters".
>>Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around. >>Entertaining sorts. >You said it, elvish one. If little else, vampies and otherkind have >their extreme eccentricity in common. ;)
I think what I find resonates with me about vampyres is the cheerful darkness, if that makes sense. A lot of people both magickal and mundane assume walking a dark path mean you must be evil, or sombre, or both. It doesn't, and the vampyres understand that the darker paths are simply other expressions of the nature of intelligent living beings.
Too, some things are considered *dark* today that were not always considered dark. Death, for example, as an object of humor. In our society a morbid sense of humor is looked upon with suspicion because we fear death. But there was a time when death was accepted as casually as taxes are today, and considered a part of the Wheel.
>>But that's just me. >>Th' Elf >You and your Dreamer, elvish one. >-little o (aka Van*&*)
Tiernan
<0o---<>---o0<Mistress of the Wild Hunt>0o---<>---o0> RIP: FREEDOM OF SPEECH 1776-1996 http://www.nai.net/~jkline
Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance.
In article <4fj6ub$...@a3bsrv.nai.net>, jkl...@nai.net (Tiernan) writes: > yu145...@yorku.ca (Vandale*&*) verily did say unto All: >>In article <DMC7Gy....@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) says: >>> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: >>>> What, if any, is the traditional relationship between >>>> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there >>>> any relatioship at all in the mythologies? >>>> [snipples] >>>> John
>>>Good darned question! >>>Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as >>>members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain >>>other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted >>>them. Depends on the individuals in question.
>>It was always my understanding that the faeriekind and the vampyres >>were actually of the same ilk (different branches of the family tree). >>I know plenty of faeriekinds who prey on humans...
> Traditionally, the Wild Hunt is also affiliated with the Seelie Courts > although there is the odd Unseelie Hunter. One is a Hunter within > one's spirit, not one's court affiliations. There was a time, to be > honest, when I and my kind would have hunted true vamps did we find > them...which I must admit, if I do know any they have not outed > themselves to me, and I never pry. But in modern times the old court > affiliations are becoming blurred. Personally, I do not hunt vamps > and I consider them friends and Otherkin as well, Otherkin being the > general term by which fae folke refer to themselves.
>>>Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do >>>really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly >>>glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not >>>always true, but is generally the norm.
>>Actually, Dreamers, who are half-mortal, are very sought-after by the >>original purebloods. And we are ill-equipped to fight 'em off.
> *smile* Imagine a psivamp fool enough to leech an elf. Vandale, one > day dearest we shall have to teach you trapshields.
>>>These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety >>>and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their >>>solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this >>>point of view).
>>Yes, the Vampyre and the Faerie are cousin and sibling both.
> *nods*
>>>I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at >>>the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies. >>>Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have >>>their... "monsters".
>>>Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around. >>>Entertaining sorts.
>>You said it, elvish one. If little else, vampies and otherkind have >>their extreme eccentricity in common. ;)
> I think what I find resonates with me about vampyres is the cheerful > darkness, if that makes sense. A lot of people both magickal and > mundane assume walking a dark path mean you must be evil, or sombre, > or both. It doesn't, and the vampyres understand that the darker > paths are simply other expressions of the nature of intelligent living > beings.
> Too, some things are considered *dark* today that were not always > considered dark. Death, for example, as an object of humor. In our > society a morbid sense of humor is looked upon with suspicion because > we fear death. But there was a time when death was accepted as > casually as taxes are today, and considered a part of the Wheel.
>>>But that's just me. >>>Th' Elf
>>You and your Dreamer, elvish one. >>-little o (aka Van*&*)
> Tiernan
> <0o---<>---o0<Mistress of the Wild Hunt>0o---<>---o0> > RIP: FREEDOM OF SPEECH 1776-1996 > http://www.nai.net/~jkline
> Is there any way to > determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any > distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of > mark?
Th'Elf can probably answer your question with more authority than I can, since he has made a life's study. Myself, I have known a few, so I'll tell you what I have learned.
All of the elves I have known are less than 100% elf, having had their elven blood intermingled with human blood during their ancestry. The elven side of them seems to come out most noticeably when they are children. I suspect that 'human' is dominant over 'elf', but that the human child state is most similar to the elven species. Consequently, a human child with true elf blood is most noticeably 'elflike' when young.
What to look for? No distinguishing marks that I've ever heard of. Slightly pointy ears can be one giveaway. Long, thin limbs and a tiny torso is another. High forehead. Big eyes. Thin, curly, wispy hair. A tendency to run and jump and prance a lot...to dream and fantasize and sing in a high voice. An odd combination of helplessness and fierce independence. Some human children with elven blood may even exhibit magical powers. I knew one who could become invisible.
The elven human matures more slowly than the full human. They may remain small in stature or they may grow as large as an average-sized human. They pointy ears, so noticeable when they were children, usually become more round like human ears yet they may continue to protrude ever so slightly. The ones I have known lost their magical powers as they got older, but Th'Elf may know of others who have not.
Anyway, this has been my experience with elves. Can anyone add to this?
(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: > Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been > quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to > determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any > distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of > mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance. > John
Birthmark? Ummmmm... no. There are certain physical characteristics but they do not all hold true. One must look at the way she moves, how she is built, how she holds herself, her frame and muscle, he body language, her eyes and soul. Also attitudes and outlooks on a variety of things from personal ethics to conscience (most elves are definable as "sociopathic" as elves are commonly not born with a conscience to hold their personal moral system... they have to develop their own).
*sigh* Okay, IN GENERAL elves are tallish, slim, svelte, wiry of build. There are exceptions, usually in cases of great strength (external or internal) or in positional specialization. Cheekbones are generally pronounced, eyes are deep and expressive, muscle tone is high and strength is proportionately greater than a human's. They tend to move like a cat, fox, wolf or other animal and will identify with an animal (much like the Nor Ind Totems). Fingers are long and slim, and lips and eyes can easily let you know when they're up to mischief.
Is that a good start? Internal/intangible indications are usually better to look for.
Th' elf
-- I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook
Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I truely appreciate it. I'm not just asking these questions out of simple curiosty, I do have a slightly alterior motive. My short, and rather amusing story: A friend of my girlfriend has her convinced that she is an elf queen. He says his ex-wife, his ex-fiancee, and ANgie have a trait in common that is supposed to be the mark of an elf queen, they all are missing a certain part of their . . .genitials. Angie swear she doesn't remember what the part is. And, seeing as Angie's are the only I've had experience with except for the diagrams in 5th grade sex ed 9 years ago,I'm not really qualified to guess :). But, from what I've seen, she's all there. Another symptom he mentioned. She told him of one morning she woke up with a small, prefectly round bruise on her hand that she didn't remember getting. Appearently he said this is another sign that's she's a queen.
OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres. SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance.
In article <DMsDH5....@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) writes:
> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: >> Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been >> quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to >> determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any >> distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of >> mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance. >> John
> Birthmark? Ummmmm... no. > There are certain physical characteristics but they do not all hold true. > One must look at the way she moves, how she is built, how she holds > herself, her frame and muscle, he body language, her eyes and soul. Also > attitudes and outlooks on a variety of things from personal ethics to > conscience (most elves are definable as "sociopathic" as elves are > commonly not born with a conscience to hold their personal moral system... > they have to develop their own).
> *sigh* Okay, IN GENERAL elves are tallish, slim, svelte, wiry of build. > There are exceptions, usually in cases of great strength (external or > internal) or in positional specialization. Cheekbones are generally > pronounced, eyes are deep and expressive, muscle tone is high and strength > is proportionately greater than a human's. They tend to move like a cat, > fox, wolf or other animal and will identify with an animal (much like the > Nor Ind Totems). > Fingers are long and slim, and lips and eyes can easily let you know when > they're up to mischief.
> Is that a good start? > Internal/intangible indications are usually better to look for.
> Th' elf
> -- > I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal > unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated > by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south > for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook
(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: > Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I > truely appreciate it. I'm not just asking these questions out of simple > curiosty, I do have a slightly alterior motive.
Not a problem. Ignorance breeds fear and hate. Knowledge is a good thing.
> My short, and rather amusing story: A friend of my girlfriend has > her convinced that she is an elf queen. He says his ex-wife, his ex-fiancee, > and ANgie have a trait in common that is supposed to be the mark of an > elf queen, they all are missing a certain part of their . . .genitials. Angie > swear she doesn't remember what the part is. And, seeing as Angie's are the > only I've had experience with except for the diagrams in 5th grade sex ed 9 > years ago,I'm not really qualified to guess :). But, from what I've seen, she's > all there.
Well, first of all, nobility is made, not necessarily born. Yeah, yeah, there's the Noble Sidhe, the High Aelfar... but they're harder on themselves than most are. Perhaps she's got some of that blood in her... but that doesn't automatically make her a queen. Hell, I haven't seen a proper king or queen in... a long time. Long long. And they share characteristics with most of the elven lines... And missing a certain part of their genitilia is in NO WAY any form of proof. That's laughable. That's sad at the same time. Nope, never met an elf who weren't all there.
> Another symptom he mentioned. She told him of one morning she woke up > with a small, prefectly round bruise on her hand that she didn't remember > getting. Appearently he said this is another sign that's she's a queen.
There are a LOT of ways that could have occured. Nope, when they talk of lost nobility it's always birthmarks...never bruises. Bruises go away.
> OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know > nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres. > SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full > of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance. > John
Crap. Most definitely crap. *sigh* I am less than impressed. Now, I don't know whether your g/f is an elf or not, and couldn't tell without knowing a lot more (information that does not require descriptions of either genitilia nor bruises...) but it sounds like this guy knows nothing at all and is using a line on her. Or, perhaps, he's actually psychotic and believes this, in which case don't let him around...
Good luck Th' Elf
-- I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook
Th' Elf, you have my eternal gratitude! I'm very relieved that he is indeed feeding my g/f a line. Of course, now I'll have to think of some appropriately painful way to deal with this guy, but won't be any real problem. :) Let's see...its been a while since I've impaled anyone, summer of '62 was SUCH a good year, I'll never forget the Sultan's face when he saw the forest I'd planted for him.......but, I'm waxing nostalgic again. That life is well behind me. ;) Thanks again.
In article <DMtzwL....@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) writes:
> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes: >> Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I >> truely appreciate it. I'm not just asking these questions out of simple >> curiosty, I do have a slightly alterior motive.
> Not a problem. Ignorance breeds fear and hate. Knowledge is a good thing.
>> My short, and rather amusing story: A friend of my girlfriend has >> her convinced that she is an elf queen. He says his ex-wife, his ex-fiancee, >> and ANgie have a trait in common that is supposed to be the mark of an >> elf queen, they all are missing a certain part of their . . .genitials. Angie >> swear she doesn't remember what the part is. And, seeing as Angie's are the >> only I've had experience with except for the diagrams in 5th grade sex ed 9 >> years ago,I'm not really qualified to guess :). But, from what I've seen, she's >> all there.
> Well, first of all, nobility is made, not necessarily born. Yeah, yeah, > there's the Noble Sidhe, the High Aelfar... but they're harder on > themselves than most are. Perhaps she's got some of that blood in her... > but that doesn't automatically make her a queen. Hell, I haven't seen a > proper king or queen in... a long time. Long long. And they share > characteristics with most of the elven lines... > And missing a certain part of their genitilia is in NO WAY any form of > proof. That's laughable. That's sad at the same time. Nope, never met an > elf who weren't all there.
>> Another symptom he mentioned. She told him of one morning she woke up >> with a small, prefectly round bruise on her hand that she didn't remember >> getting. Appearently he said this is another sign that's she's a queen.
> There are a LOT of ways that could have occured. Nope, when they talk of > lost nobility it's always birthmarks...never bruises. Bruises go away.
>> OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know >> nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres. >> SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full >> of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance. >> John
> Crap. Most definitely crap. *sigh* I am less than impressed. Now, I don't > know whether your g/f is an elf or not, and couldn't tell without knowing > a lot more (information that does not require descriptions of either > genitilia nor bruises...) but it sounds like this guy knows nothing at all > and is using a line on her. Or, perhaps, he's actually psychotic and > believes this, in which case don't let him around...
> Good luck > Th' Elf
> -- > I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal > unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated > by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south > for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook
