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Wolf  
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 More options May 30 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: Wolf <wolft...@micron.net>
Date: 1998/05/30
Subject: Re: Is it true?

Starshadow wrote:
> In article <35650A40....@micron.net>, wolft...@micron.net says...
> > Starshadow wrote:

> > > In article <35634BCD.1...@micron.net>, wolft...@micron.net says...
> > Of course I have credibility... just not with you. BTW, I'm not accusing
> > Stacey of lying, I'm merely suggesting she has edited the actual events
> > in whatever fashion she deemed appropriate to support her claims.

>   In that case so do we all. I think that what was done amounts to
> following and harrassment, and restraining orders have been gotten for
> lesser proof than this.

This I understand. Perception is everything. The mindset of
de-programming allows one to see more or less ordinary occurances in
very stark B&W terms.

> > What you've seen are things posted on this ng that have been claimed to
> > be from peoples folders. Common sense (of which I have copious amounts)
> > would tell you that after millions of hours of auditing, somebody,
> > somewhere is bound to scan a few folders looking for dirt. It happens in
> > Law offices, psychiatric offices, doctors offices all the time. But to
> > make a point: *Scientology* does not utilize the confidental contents of
> > pc folders for blackmail.

>   I do not believe that. And I assure you that in the above professions,
> confidentiality is taken very seriously. It's been proven to my
> satisfaction (others who were higher up in the org than you, for example)
> that this is *exactly* what happens in this "church".

I hate to split hairs, but it's my specialty. I'll acknowledge that some
in the GO/OSA power circle may have culled data from folders. By
pointing out that professionals have been accused and found guilty in
other arenas of similar breaches in confidence I'm not attempting to
lessen what may have been done by GO people. In either instance it's
contemptable. But a mental health professional or attorney who violates
confidentiality doesn't make all his/her peers guilty by association.
Nor does the random act by a GO/OSA member. *Scientology* doesn't use pc
folders to blackmail anymore than *psychiatry* uses session notes to
blackmail.

>   Grady Ward's mother was called on by Ingram who stole photos of her
> son. There are lots of others so harassed right here on this ng, why not
> ask them??
>    Oh, I forgot. We are all droids and bigots, can't trust us.

My mother - who is an ex-Scn - had a visit 18 months ago from OSA
people. They were looking for an individual who shared her residence and
had been involved with some German reporters. How to interpret that
visit? Harrassment? Covert Ops? Intimidation? I don't know... how about
2 people who represented the CofS knocking on a door and asking
questions about a matter that concerned their group? The freedom of
movement and speech that we still have in this country does not exclude
CofS and they have the same right to move about, ask questions and
investigate matters they deem of significance as ARS'ers have to picket
or drop into an org and ask some 17 year old receptionist about BT's.
My mother was initially perurbed by the visit, but after to speaking to
her at length and asking her exactly what the people asked and their
manner she concluded that she had overreacted. Was this reaction due, in
part, to her occassional ARS lurking and the spin of this group?
Certainly. She has not since heard a word from OSA... even though they
are well aware she is a highly trained auditor who remains critical of
the CofS mngmnt.

I have other friends who have experienced visits from OSA people and who
didn't define those visits as harrassment. Why should I take Grady
Ward's mother's assessment over the assessment of my own mother or
people I know well who are highly critical of Scn? My aim here is to at
least suggest that some of the emotional heat pumped into the alleged
harrassment may be bs.  ARS hard-liners call that the act of an
'apologist'. Personally I see it more as adding a little sense to the
issue.

> > Me too. Thankfully no such cults exist in our fair land.

>  Lisa McPherson killed by application of the Introspection Rundown.

Lisa McPherson apparently died while on the introspection R/D. That
disregard for her health and even malicious mistreatment was rendered by
the three main players in this sad occurance seems obvious. Are they
guilty of manslaughter? That's for the courts to decide. Do I think so.
Yes. Based upon what I have heard and seen this seems to be the case.
Asserting that she was killed by the introspection rundown is the worst
sort of demonization and proves nothing about Scn. More to the point, it
proves that many critics are full of hype, bigotry and prejudice which
they hide under the fuzzy blanket of concern about the evil cult.

> > > > that ARS is gradually evolving into the very same thing it's main
> > > > speakers say they hate about Scientology. But since you're already a
> > > > cultie, you wouldn't have noticed.

>   Pot, kettle, black, is that it?  Tit for tat?  Though, strictly
> speaking you are right. CofS isn't a cult, it is a "criminal cult",
> convicted as such in many places, and the US will be one, eventually. The
> karmic wheel turns eventually.

First we have the 'witch' problem, now we're relying on karmic wheels.
Might I point out gently Starshadow that belief in such things is as
weird as belief in BT's and evil SF space empires?

> > >   Right, we are all in a cult. You know about as much of that as you do
> > > about me, hence you defining me as a "subgenius". Who do you think is
> > > *our* noble cult leader?  Xenu?  Minton?  The Evil Zombie Psyche Lords?

> > Right now Starshadow, there is a power struggle in the ARS Cult. Erlich
> > has seemingly lost ground because he can't get a job and Wollersheim has
> > been found out to be what many of us knew all along, an attention-mooch.
> > Tilman has fallen victim to the clam-meme virus and Rob has proven
> > steadily that he's too intelligent to buy into _all_ the rants and spew
> > of this cult. RVY and his bride are angling to fill the vacuum by
> > planning and staging daring GO type operations and rescuing fair maidens
> > in the nick of time, but who can trust a couple of ex-GO button men?
> > Barwell would love to be leader but he *plonks* anyone who says anything
> > that isn't exactly what he wants to hear. Henson has the smarts, but the
> > RTC left tread marks on his checkbook. I don't think you want the job...
> > so... that leaves Dave Bird, He's the only ARS cultie here who has
> > consistently been looney enough to dribble his garbage out in an
> > on-policy, 100% standard fashion. Plus there's the added bonus of his
> > giant beard and bohemian appearance. I vote for Dave!

>   Yeah, well you aren't in the ARSCC9wdne) so you don't get a vote. So
> there!  *sticks tongue out*

Ouch! That hurt. Where's that freedom of speech and adherence to the
laws, not to mention the loathing of secret cult power structures you
all claim to have? Despite my non-participation in the non-existant
mngmnt of ARS, shouldn't I also be allowed to examine it's workings? Or
are the non-members worried about what prying eyes may discover? ;)

> > > > > and that they never defend, they always attack.

> > > > Well, pass. It's policy. A good one too, evidenced by the fact that
> > > > nobody has ever forced them to answer any questions.

> > >   It sure makes showing their idiocy easier. Non-confront and all that.

> > I disagree. There's a world of difference between failing to confront
> > something and stonewalling. Witness our current President if you want to
> > observe a true master. It's effective, produces results and has been the
> > preferred weapon of our civilization since language evolved. You want
> > answers? They say nope. Now what ya gonna do? Shoot them? That's life.

>   Well, Wolf, when they claim they have *all* the answers and then refuse
> to provide any of them, it just tends to show the lurkers how stupid they
> are.

Stupid people don't rake in hundreds of millions of dollars per year.
Nor do they allegedly coerce the largest gov't agency we have into
giving them a break. Nor do they have international operations of an
impressive scope. What stupid people do is consistently underestimate
their opponents and when faced with one defeat after another, re-spin
the experiences into a false win over the *stupid* opponent.
Competitively speaking, my current business has survived 16 years of
assualts by better financed, better schooled and better located
opponents. They're gone. I'm thriving. To the man, each one of them
figured they could whip me because they viewed my style of operating as
stupid and old-fashioned. In my defense, I restrained myself from a
malicious grin and evil peal of laughter when I cut their fucking hearts
out. I am a compassionate and caring soul.....

> > I wish you ARS cultists would get it through your skulls... wgert,
> > gunny, whip and the rest aren't major assets of the CofS. They're
> > grunts. Foot soldiers. They don't know dick about what the RTC is up to.
> > The threat of any enemy can be determined by the quality of the assets
> > sent against it. Erlich, Henson, Wollersheim did, at one point, present
> > a threat. That's why bigger guns were brought into play. You guys get
> > wgert. Which shows how much impact ARS has had in the last four years.

>  Why do we need any foot soldiers at all?  Why does a religion need foot
> soldiers at all?  Why not just ignore ars if it is that little a threat?

Huh? Did you snooze through history class? I'm not suggesting ARS isn't
a threat. What I _am_ suggesting is that CofS doesn't see it as a great
threat right now. You'll know whn they do, of that you can be sure.

>     We covered that topic in email, so I won't reiterate here, except to
> say that joking and degrading is part and parcel of my attitude, but I
> don't usually engage in looksism, as a general belief in not throwing
> stones in glass houses. I'm no little fairy foot. More like the great
> white whale...(like I said, though, Goddesses are Not Anorexic!!)

If you and I keep up this way we'll find we're in agreement on way too
many things to be sworn enemies. I'm an advocate of the high value of
J&D. As for the assertion that Goddesses are large... well.... I
consider that a delicate subject so I'll refrain from comment.

> > >   But for one who claims to have read a number of my posts and yet still
> > > makes a fundemental mistake like thinking (for one) I'm a Sub-Genius, you
> > > aren't looking as rational as you'd like.

> > Now I never said *I* was rational, just that my thought processes are. I
> > obviously like what you write, why else would I be here?

> > Wolf

>  Flattery will get you everywhere, Wolf.

I noticed that a long time ago. Now if I just just figure out how the
hell to flatter Dave Bird......

Wolf


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