In article <73fp44$2e...@newnews.global.net.uk>, "stephen robinson"

Odd that, even though you're an "ex"-Scn, your post sounds *so* familiar.

Should we ignore small evils just because there are bigger ones?  Not to
mention, the big ones are far from me, while the small one is very close.

Are you *sure* you're an *ex* Scn?

Yes, Xtianity has a bad history - its because I *know* its history that I
recognize what the CoS is doing.  

As to knowing history - um, you might want to research the Mormons, Jews &
Moslems a bit more...

Are you *really* sure you're an ex Scn?

what wrong?

guessing:
Horrible Truths
===============
Here are some horrible truths for Scientologists reading this newsgroup.

The State of Clear
------------------
In DMSMH, Hubbard claimed that a Clear would have perfect recall (among
other things such as having a higher intelligence and being near immune
to disease, living longer etc.) He once attempted to demonstrate this to
a large audience at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. The Clear was
Sonia Bianca, a physics major. On being tested, she could not even
remember the physics formulae she was familiar with. She also could not
even remember what colour tie L. Ron Hubbard was wearing when his back
was turned. The audience jeered. Despite failing to prove this to a
large audience and despite never attempting to prove this or any other
of his claims about this state to the scientific community, the wild
claims about the State of Clear are still in DMSMH and to say it is
historical or no longer applies would be a "technical degreade" and
hence an "ethics offence" that could result in a person being expelled
from the "Church". These claims are made even more dishonest when you
consider that there exists a definition of the State of Clear that is
kept under lock and key in the "Church". And that definition
is that a person is Clear when they realise that they are mocking up
their own reactive mind. The only abilities claimed in that document is
that the Clear is less prone to doing this. There is no mention about
any of the abilities claimed in DMSMH. Indeed, a person who is Clear
will be told that they are "at risk" and must move on to higher levels,
so in a  sense they are worse off that the ordinary man on the street
who has never heard of the "reactive mind".

Maintaining those claims about the State of Clear in DMSMH and telling
the public that information as if it were true is blatantly dishonest.
Expelling members who tell the truth about it compounds the dishonesty.
It is a deliberate fraud.

The OT Levels
-------------
Hubbard described Clear as being only Clear on the first Dynamic.
Pre-Clears are sometimes told by visiting Flag reps that on the OT
levels they will go Clear on the 3rd Dynamic. The 3rd Dynamic is to do
with groups of people. This is very apt then, since on the OT levels,
from OT III to OT VII currently, you will indeed be auditing a *group*.
This group is a body infestation of murdered space-aliens called "body
thetans". Every person is supposed to have 2,500 or more of these. On
the OT levels they are talked to telepathically, with their responses
measured on the e-meter with the cans held in one hand with an
insulating separator between them. They are asked to remember the time,
75 million years ago, when the evil galactic overlord, Xenu, had them
frozen in alcohol and glycol and transported to Earth, across space, in
DC-8 space planes. They were then stacked around volcanoes and nuked,
after which they were gathered together and taken to cinemas to see
several days worth of 3D motion pictures. After this, they supposedly
clustered together since they had the same engrams. This sort of
"clustering incident " is described in the book "A History of Man". L.
Ron Hubbard gave a lecture entitled "Assists" in which he described how
he would make his body thetans go away
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/BTs.ram . He also described the flight
across space in DC-8 space planes
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/DC-8s.ram .

OT III is supposed to rid you of these dead space-aliens "body thetans".
you attest to OT III when you have cognited that you have no more of
them. But then it is time for OT IV and you are told that you do have
more of them and that they are in a drugged state. You do the OT Drug
Rundown for the benefit of these drugged body thetans. After that it is
time for NOTs auditing. NOTs is short for "New Era Dianetics for OTs".
Most pre-clears know that you cannot give Dianetics processing to a
Clear, whether that be Book One style or NED. And yet pre-OTs are given
NOTs. This seems like a contradiction. It is not though, since NOTs is
not aimed at them. It is aimed at their infestation of space-alien "body
thetans".

The Abilities of an OT
----------------------
L. Ron Hubbard made far more claims about the ability of an OT, or
"Operating Thetan" than he did about the State of Clear. As with the
former, it was completely without foundation. OTs have no power of mind
over matter, telepathy, no ability to leave their bodies or anything
like that. L. Ron Hubbard's own claims about his own abilities prove
that he was deluded about this state. He once claimed, in a lecture
called "Between-Lives Implants", that he had transported himself to the
planet Venus -- where he was nearly run over by a freight locomotive
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram . This was not an isolated
example in which he really did achieve this claimed feat and merely got
the identity of the planet wrong. He considered that Venus, Mars and
Jupiter were all inhabited. In the lecture "Role of Earth" he described
Mars as being inhabited by the Fourth Invader Force
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Mars.ram , the Venusian government to be
monitored by the Fifth Invader Force
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusian.ram while Earth itself was
being used as a prison planet by both Mars and Venus
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Prison.ram as well as a dumping ground
for beings from other galaxies
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Dumping.ram . As for Jupiter, he said
the people who lived there would look like Eskimos
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram .

The only person who has been a Scientologist (he is not any longer) and
has attempted to prove the existence of special mental powers to the
scientific community was Ingo Swann. The Randi Foundation has a million
dollars waiting for the first person who can prove the existence of
mental super-powers under controlled conditions. Were an OT to achieve
this they would become rich as well as putting Scientology on the path
of "Clearing the Planet". Scientology would become a major world
religion in short order. However, if L. Ron Hubbard's claims about his
own abilities are anything to go by, then this possibility seems remote.
--
chochi, KoX, Sp3
Prefiero vivir mi propia vida,
que ser un titere en el sueño de alguien...
Comentario acerca de los Co$

Speaking as an ex-Scientologist myself,  I have recently found this
newsgroup and am amazed by the bitterness which is found here.

Why are you all carrying so many grudges?  Surely, there are much bloodier
and nastier things to start a crusade about, the murders and genocide in
East Timor/Iraq for example, or the continuing starvation of the children in
Africa.

But no, here you all are slagging off Scientology.  So, why don't you all do
like I did....go out and get yourselves a life.  You will feel much better
for it.

It is the "dangerousness" of Scientology that most of you seem to have an
issue about.  Well, as far as new religions go, its record is not really all
that bad.  Christianity, for example, has its foundations on the millions of
people killed "in the name of Christ", either through wars or at the hands
of self-serving and sadistic priests.  Yet no-one these days says
Christianity is evil.  Also, if you think Scientology is the first religion
based on money, then think again.  Take a look in the history books for
Henry 8th and the reformation of the monasteries.  Or the mormons with their
10% of income.  The Jewish and moslem faiths are also based on people
handing over large amounts of cash.

So come on you guys.  Make a move towards a more positive future.  Don't
hang on to all those rusty old chains from your past. It's not worth it.
Honest.

Please tell us more. Why did you get in and why did you leave? It helps with
credibility.

 I have recently found this

I guess you have missed my posts havn't you?

Most people here are not ex scientologist. So your insinuation that people here
have a grudge against Scientology is wrong. And most ex's have a right to have
a grudge. If Scientology were up front about ALL of their beliefs I would have
never joined. I am here to make sure that anyone who wants inquires about
Scientology beliefs will get the full story. I don't find anything wrong with
that do you?

  Surely, there are much bloodier

This isn't my issue; I really can't do anything about those incidents except
give money and Scientology is actually more dangerous to my health and
democratic welfare than all of the above. I also believe that Scientology is a
great menace to free thinking people.

Geee, well that is why you are so ignorant of the facts.

Scientology isn't a new religion. Scientology is a global business/ racket that
preys on people's weaknesses. As far as a business goes, Scientology has set
many precedents.

FYI, Scientology has been banned in Greece and is criminally convicted in
Canada and they are about to be criminally convicted in the USA. They are being
watched by the German  gov. and are considered a business there. Is it beyond
your scope of reasoning that there is something wrong here? This NG isn't some
kind of fantasy role play game you know. If it weren't for ARS I bet
Scientology would be trotting right along as usual and not many people the
wiser of their activities. Ignorance will get you no where.

 Christianity, for example, has its foundations on the millions of

If the internet were around back then then there would be an NG about it.

 Yet no-one these days says

You are wrong there my friend.

.  Also, if you think Scientology is the first religion

Scientology is based on money. Scientology was declared by the Supreme Court
that it is a business and all religions are based on money. That isn't the real
issue. What the real issue is is what Scientology does with that money. All the
PI's that are hired and all the law suits are an incredible stretch of the term
'charitable organization'.

  Take a look in the history books for

The mormorns are considered a cult. Just because you have set a precedent here,
much like the same examples that Scientologists use, doesn't mean squat.

Scientology's use of  saleseman's terms and their use of credit cards does not
justify their actions as charitable.

 The Jewish and moslem faiths are also based on people

so is all religion.

Yes, one that will include not listening to posts that have nothing to do with
the facts.

 Don't

******
Having two faiths is controversial. Scntlgy is one that claims compatibility
with all beliefs. You most certainly can be a faithful Scngist and a Christian
but you can not be a faithful Christian and a Scngist. Scngsts faith is rooted
in money.

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:55:04 -0000, "stephen robinson" <sterobin

How long were you in?  
How much money did you waste?
Did you see human-rights abuses?

I didn't like the way scientology locks people up and abuses them
physically and mentally.

And I chip in on those crusades too.  In fact for many years there
were not many of us ranting about East Timor.  Eventually the snowball
effect roll over scientology too.

Ah well, we should leave it alone for a couple thousand years so it
can acquire an impressive record of death and abuses eh?  I don't
think so.  Fortunately most brits seem to have a better grasp of logic
than you.

I do.

We are, thanks for the encouragement.

I guess you're a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy.  Good on you!

However I want to see the co$ punished for its crimes, I hope you can
appreciate that.

Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine

Free meme innoculations!

Besides, you can perfectly well be sure that if scienos were able to get
access to such countries' leaders, they could "forget" and "forbid" them
for their numerous crimes, just to get some country to get their hands
onto, as an op's base for their world conquest. What do you believe you
management does with his monies? Placing them into charity business, or
forcing that money to make more money, into whatever could be the best
to get a maximum, disregarding the "ethics" of the companies or groups
into which they feed those moneys?

Roger

stephen robinson <sterobin @globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
: Speaking as an ex-Scientologist myself,  I have recently found this
: newsgroup and am amazed by the bitterness which is found here.

I am not bitter about scientology--though lord knows I have plenty of
reason to be.  Try putting my name in a search engine.  Keith Henson

stephen robinson <sterobin @globalnet.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

: Well, as far as new religions go, its record is not really all
: that bad.  Christianity, for example,. . .[snip]

Apologist blither #46.  IMO, the history of religions in general is an
excellent reason to make sure Scientology never even *approaches* a
similar level of power and cruelty.

Beck

In article <73fp44$2e...@newnews.global.net.uk>, "stephen robinson"

I don't believe you at all. You post the same message that has been posted
here a hundred times before by cult shills - skilled liars. It's the party
line, designed to discourage people from trying to get your cult to stop
its abuse of people and the law. You should be ashamed of what they are
getting you to do.

[...]

Close your eyes to the cult's abuse of people and the law. Don't bother
yourself about it. Look at those other abuses, way, way over there! They
are really bad, aren't they? Go get them! We'll be just fine here without
you. Bye bye! Now we are free to continue our abuse of people and the law
without interference.

Look at what you are doing. You should be ashamed.

It's the abuse of people and the abuse of the law that I have an issue
about. Is it wrong to be against abuse of people and the law? If not, then
what are you trying to get me to turn away from it. Is this what you
thought the cult would have you doing when you first joined them?

Two wrongs make a right, you say? We may be bad but that thing way, way
over there is worse so it's ok that we are bad and you should leave us
alone. Does that logic make sense to you? Then why are you spouting it?

[...]

Yes, Scientology is a religion based on money. And, it also abuses people
and the law. Stop abusing people and the law. Is it wrong to ask the cult
to stop abusing people and the law?

[...]

You are as honest as the day is long. In your cult, lying is a sacrament.
It's your sacred duty to LIE. Don't tell harmful lies, says the cult's
sacred scripture. What could be less harmful than saving the planet? Then
clearing it? Then getting people to join? Than getting people to stop
criticising its abuse of people and the law? In a matter so important to
the future of the galactic confederation itself, it is not just righteous
to lie, it is your duty. To lie.

LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT

--
Mike O'Connor - lep...@panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~lepton/

In article <jrR62.1392$CY1.5509...@news.itd.umich.edu>,
  Rebecca Jo McLaughlin <beck...@umich.edu> wrote:
Hear! Hear! Christianity also has almost two thousand years of practice going
for it. I shudder to think what might be wrought were Co$ permitted to pursue
its present course for that long.

Niall
Say it loud "I'm suppressive and I'm proud!"
SP1

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