Tilman says:

<I have still to see when individual scientologists were ever discriminated.

There are examples in the HATE booklet published in 1993:

- November 1989: I received an anonymous call at 3 a.m. and was
insulted for being a "sect pig" and was threatened with the "death of
all Scientologists."

- August 1990: At the real estate office, the rental contract was
written and I signed it.  A few days later, an employee of the office
called me and told me that I couldn't have the apartment.  The
apartment owner had said no.  He did not want to have sect members in
his apartment.

- The following is a statement by an opponent of the Scientology
religion at an event in North Germany on June 11, 1991: "Unfortunately
they [the Scientologists] don't wear an SC [Scientology Church] label
which would make it easier to recognize them."

- May 16, 1992: Anonymous phone call to the 72 year-old mother of a
Scientologist at a home for the elderly: "Scientology pig."

- July 10, 1991: A letter from the Catholic Bildungswerks [education
group] to a female employee, who had been working for this group for
sever years: "After the last Board meeting, I have to inform you that
the Catholic Bildungswerk won't be able to employ you any longer due to
your membership in the Scientology Church."

- Spring 1990: At a bookstore in Gronau the display windows were
smashed.  A note was left which said that the windows were broken as a
protest against the store displaying the book Dianetics.

WHO wrote this book?  Who published and distributed it?
BTW, slick move in sending people to other NG's to stir
the pot.  Too bad a.r.s.'ers read other NG's as well.

Beverly

The full title is HATE AND PROPAGANDA - Documentation of the Hate
Campaign Against the Scientology Community in Germany.  It was
published 1993 by Church of Scientology International.  There is another
more recent publication entitled THE RISE OF HATRED & VIOLENCE IN
GERMANY published by FREEDOM MAGAZINE which also gives instances of
harassment against Scientologists.

- During a 1993 concert in Stadt of Golden Bough, an American folk
singing group whose members are Scientologists, Christian Democratic
Union youth affiliate members marched to the stage with banners to
intimidate and ridicule the musicians.  Earlier a German magazine
printed a list of names of musicians who were Scientologists suggesting
boycotting all musicians on the "hit" list.  In the fall of 1991 the
Hamburg city government cancelled their contract at Hamburg's music
hall, as did the city of Celle due to their "connection" with the Church
of Scientology.

- The Kath's, a German family who got into Scientology in 1992, had
their 3 year old son ostracized from kindergarten after the head of the
kindergarten told other children not to play with him because he was a
Scientologist.  The father, Detlef, was forced out of his job at
Mecklenburge Insurance Company.  Detlef attempted to defend Scientology
at an anti-Scientology rally in Berlin, was called a "devil" and forced
to leave.

- Scientologist Klaus Kempe and his wife attempted for 7 years to adopt
a child, which was denied due to the fact that they were Scientologists.
They fought for 7 years in the courts but by the end of that time, the
issue became moot as both had passed the upper age limit allowed for
adoption.

- In 1992 the Commerz Bank of Hanover closed the business account of
Hubillus and Partners, a real estate business as "Mr. Kubillus is a
Scientologist."

- Stuttgart police who witnessed Frank Pass being threatened by a man
while handling out pamphlets, stood by and did nothing.  They then
seized the pamphlets, took him to police headquarters and fined him for
not carrying ID at all times.

The book draws parallels between the treatment of Scientologists and
other minorities in Germany now, as compared to the beginnings of the
Jewish persecution in Germany.  It's an interesting comparison.

Huge Cajones Remailer (nob...@huge.cajones.com) wrote:

A lot of statements without any names.  Ho hum.

Perry Scott
Co$ Escapee

Are there any names or towns to go with the above statements?

What was the name of the bookstore?

Anastasia

I knew that it was from Co$ publications, but wanted it verified by
you for the NG.

This is not acceptable.  Sci kids that are lucky enough to go to a
public school rather that a Co$ school at least have more of a chance
to be in an environment where they can have contact with non Co$
people.  What was the name of the school?  What was the name of the
teacher?  This should be mentioned as well.

After what happened with the Allstate Insurance Co. after becoming
infiltrated by Co4, that would be understandable, though not
necessarily right.

Well, I can understand that as well.  Children are NOT old thetans in
a little body, and knowing the true beleifs and policies that Co$ so
desparately tries to keep hidden but continualy fails to do, it would
cause concern as to where the priorities would be.

What overts and withholds did Mr. Kubillus partake in to draw this in
on himself?  I DO know as has been reported that Co$ pulled off some
really underhanded and dirty real estate tricks and deals.  There may
be a lot more to the story that Co$ forgot to mention.

What I find completely ironic about this fact is that Co$ can only see
with a magnifying glass what others do, and then blow it way up.

They absolutely REFUSE to make a list of THEIR crimes that they have
committed against individuals, against businesses and against whole
governments.  

I NEED you to tell me WHY this is.  I desparately need to see you
address THIS fact.  It would be good for all of the readers, both
posters and lurkers alike, to hear you address:

WHY IT IS THE CO$ IS TOTALLY INCAPABLE OF REPORTING ON THEIR OWN
CRIMES AND HARRASSMENTS.  WHY?  WHY?  WHY?  WHY?

We are all eagerly awaiting your answer.  Of course, there are so
many Huge Cajones out there, how will we know it's YOU!!  :-)

Beverly

: Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
: > - The Kath's, a German family who got into Scientology in 1992, had
: > their 3 year old son ostracized from kindergarten after the head of the
: > kindergarten told other children not to play with him because he was a
: > Scientologist.  
:
: This is not acceptable.  Sci kids that are lucky enough to go to a
: public school rather that a Co$ school at least have more of a chance
: to be in an environment where they can have contact with non Co$
: people.  What was the name of the school?  What was the name of the
: teacher?  This should be mentioned as well.

I believe it was a church school, not a public school. There was some
mention that they may have enrolled the child for the express purpose of
being told "no".

: > The father, Detlef, was forced out of his job at
: > Mecklenburge Insurance Company.  
:
: After what happened with the Allstate Insurance Co. after becoming
: infiltrated by Co4, that would be understandable, though not
: necessarily right.

"Forced out" sounds like "fired". What was he fired for? Could have been
anything. Stealing, poor sales, bad relationships with co-workers.

--
Rod Keller / rkel...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / Golden Gate Bridge Club
United Free Zone Alliance / The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos
Kha Khan countdown: 9 to go / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully

In <199610212016.NAA09...@mailmasher.com>, nob...@huge.cajones.com (Huge

Ernie? Is this you?

Do you know that scientologists were fined for distributing this hate
booklet?

Do you know that almost all in this booklet are disputes between private
parties?

This is not "discrimination". This is an abusive phone call.

Unlogical. No one says "Hi, I am a scientologist" when applying for an
apartment. I think more truthful is that someone wanted to open a
scientolgy org. Also no details.

I suggest you word-clear and clay-demo LRH's text "The anti-social
personality.... speaks in generalities ... etc". Could someone please
e-mail me the text?

This is not discrimination. This is a very stupid language. Also, you
don't say who said that.

This is not "discrimination". This is an abusive phone call.

Employee who divorces gets also fired. Besides, you claim scientology is
a religion. So what?

This is not "discrimination". This is vandalism. Same happened routinely
in the Berlin "dianetik bookshop".

You say "suggesting". So obviously they were not calling for a boycott.

The can get private facilities for their recruitment tours. Why should
the state lease to people whose aim is to destroy it?

I hope that this is not true. Considering the honesty of such
propaganda, it probably isn't.

Labor laws are very pro-employee here, unlike the US. He could sue. 90%
of all cases are decided pro-employees. Funny, no mention of a lawsuit.

Let me guess. The guy proselytised for co$, was told three times to stop
it, didn't stop, was fired.

No discrimination. Kempe is a hard-core scieno. The concept of "adults
in small bodies" is not compatible with the general view how children
should be raised.

Why didn't Kempe try to adopt a fresh baby from the source where Tom
Cruise got his?

Or maybe poor credit behaviour?

Define "threatened". I assume that "scientology sucks" is already a
threat. The rest is completely correct here.

It's propaganda. Like the title says: "Hate and Propaganda".

Tilman

On Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:56:02 -0700, nob...@huge.cajones.com (Huge

FREEDOOM magazine regularly publishes a slew of lies about anyone who
dares to criticise Scientology. Why should any of its other
publications be different?

This is poor, bad PR, and not a nice way to go about things. It is
also free speech, and in my book no worse than a bunch of Scienos
camping on Bonnie Woods's front lawn and screaming abuse.

Boycotts are a perfectly reasonable form of consumer choice.
Personally, I would prefer not to contribute money to individuals or
businesses who might channel that money into campaigns of harassment
against people I know, like, or respect.

If a magazine starts advocating that shop windows of Scientology
businesses be smashed, or that Scientology musicians be beaten up in
the street, then I strongly suspect that the German government would
be quicker off the mark than most to deal with it: past racially
motivated acts in Germany have been dealt with swiftly and decisively.

In the light of the falsehoods spread by Scientology concerning Chick
Corea's problems in Germany, I would want to see a much more
comprehensive description of events surrounding this before I gave the
story any credence.

I strongly suspect that we are talking, once again, about state
funding for concerts, in which case I believe that the state has as
much right as I do to decide whether or not to fund an organisation
that harbours child molesters, and uses its income to finance
inflammatory newspaper campaigns, frame critics and abuse the law.

I seem to recall that this was an unfounded allegation that was later
proved to be false. Perhaps one of the German posters can clarify?

If he was unlawfully sacked, Germany has some of the best employment
protection legislation in Europe, and he would have been able to
challenge his dismissal at a tribunal. Did he? If not, why not? What
were the reasons given for his sacking?

Not entirely unreasonable. It is bad enough that natural children are
indoctrinated into a religion (ANY religion) - I would suggest that
for the state to wilfully put a child into a Scientology family, given
the record of harm that Scientology does to people's minds, would be a
gross breach of trust.

Anyway, here in the UK, it is very common for apparently perfectly
good adoptive parents to fail to get a child for all sorts of reasons,
none of them to do with religious affiliation. I would not be
surprised to discover that this applied to this couple, too.

Too bad. Time and tide wait for no man. Sometimes life just isn't
fair, whether you're a Scieno or not. That said, you'd have thought a
few OT's could have postulated things so they came out OK: where were
those Gnarly powers when they needed them?

Scientologists in real estate in Germany have been up to all sorts of
dirty tricks - indeed, I suspect that their behaviour in this field is
one of the main reasons that they are so unpopular in Germany. If I
were the manager of a bank at which such a businessman held an
account, I would be very concerned at the negative publicity it might
have on my bank, not to mention the fact that such a person might also
be a very bad credit risk.

Banks are businesses, and as such, entitled to make their own business
decisions, subject of course to the prevailing laws.

This sounds like a load of crap. I have it on pretty good authority
(relatives-in-law) that it is virtually impossible to be prosecuted
for not carrying ID. I suspect that, like so much of these claimed
slights, there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Incidentally, what does "threatened" mean?

Furthermore, I was "threatened" by a Scientologist outside the London
org, within feet of a policeman. He did nothing, either, nor did he
need to, since I was in no danger from a woman screaming at me. I
don't have a problem with that.

Yes, especially if you lose this Scieno<->Jew fixation and start
looking at the real issue, which is the Scieno<->totalitarian
organisation connection. Germany has suffered as a result of one
totalitarian group seizing power. The German government is bound to
prevent such things happening again, and I believe that they are doing
a good job, in terms of how governments normally manage such things.

If an anti-Scieno Kristallnacht, or anything remotely resembling it,
ever happens, you can be sure that a very large number of people will
be quick to stand up against it. I certainly shall, although I do not
believe that the likelihood will arise.

What Scientology *could* do in Germany is to put a little effort into
trying not to completely piss off the entire German population.
Attacking the state all the time, and publishing newspaper
advertisements showing swastikas, is not a good line to take.

--
Steve A, SP4, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12
ObDenial: I am not Arthur Stevens of Crawley.
ObURLS: Beginners:  http://www.tiac.net/users/modemac/cos.html
        In-depth:   http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/home.html
        Harassment: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/harass/timeline-95.html
        Fools, losers, and mugs: http://www.scientology.org

Child molesters! Join Scientology and grope with impunity!

IN MEMORIAM: Richard Collins, John Buchanan, Noah Lottick anon.penet.fi,
remai...@utopia.hacktic.nl, victims of the criminal cult of Scientology.