>> >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul >1996. >> >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make >> >health >> >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list.
>> >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands >> >and institute faith healing?
>> BECAUSE, dumbo (or should I call you nelly?),
>If you are going to call me names you can piss off.
Yes, I'm sure that is a convenient excuse for not answering.
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> "Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message > news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... > > Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: > > >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message > > >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul > 1996. > > >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make > > >health > > >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list. > > >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands > > >and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on those, too?
> > Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and > > frauds.
> > However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people > > who leave them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS > > does.
> But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other places- > that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you mention are other > issues which have nothing to do with healing. > One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in > which it's being addressed.
> I'm waiting to see you take on the Christian healers next. Go on....I'm > waaaaaiiiiitinnng....
> C
So - If you post on a Ford discussion group about a discovery you have made - that several cars came off their production line with flaws that will hurt/kill the people who buy them, my response should be "What about Chevrolet? I'm waiting for you to take them on next. Look over there at what they're doing!"?
Don't insult my intelligence.
Tommy -- "It's doubtful anyone would heed a failed businessman with his own "religion" and other failed sci-fi interests."
> Use of Process: For use on someone who has left the body -- i.e., in a > situation where if the thetan does not come back the body will die. > [...]
> It would be as simple as commanding,
> "COME BACK AND BRING THIS BODY TO LIFE!"
> Or ordering the person,
> "COME BACK HERE AND PICK UP YOUR BODY! AT ONCE! PICK IT UP! I ORDER > YOU! RIGHT NOW!"
> [...] > Of course, if it is needed, the person should be fully handled with > medical treatment and further assist actions to make him completely well. > [...]
> -- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 1967-04-08 > The Bring Back To Life Assist
It just hit me like a punch to the gut that this is the last thing Lisa McPherson heard in this world, as her brain died from oxygen starvation - $cientologists who had refused to speak to her for two weeks screaming into her ears.
I think I'm going to be sick.
Tommy -- "It's doubtful anyone would heed a failed businessman with his own "religion" and other failed sci-fi interests."
>"Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message >news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... >> Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: >> >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message >> >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul >1996. >> >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make >> >health >> >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list. >> >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands >> >and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on those, too?
>> Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and >> frauds.
>> However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people >> who leave them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS >> does.
>But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other places- >that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you mention are other >issues which have nothing to do with healing. >One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in >which it's being addressed.
>I'm waiting to see you take on the Christian healers next. Go on....I'm >waaaaaiiiiitinnng....
On Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:05:58 -0800. In Message-ID: <3aa9374...@news2.lightlink.com> From: "Fluffygirl" <cswa...@home.com>. Organization: Lightlink Internet. Wrote on the subject: Re: Scientology's Bring Back To Life Assist:
>"Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message >news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... >> Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: >> >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message >> >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul >1996. >> >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make >> >health >> >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list. >> >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands >> >and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on those, too?
>> Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and >> frauds.
>> However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people >> who leave them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS >> does.
>But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other places- >that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you mention are other >issues which have nothing to do with healing. >One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in >which it's being addressed.
>I'm waiting to see you take on the Christian healers next. Go on....I'm >waaaaaiiiiitinnng....
>C
This is alt.religion.scientology, and not alt.christian.healers
After the scientology mafia is down and out, it's not the christian healers turn, it the moonies that's going to be the next crime cult to be shaved. After that, perhaps the christian healers, or perhaps some other idiocy will be taken on..
Sten-Arne
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's how I think Hubbard did his "research." He downed a bottle of gin, popped a few pills, passed out and woke up hours later, clutching the empty bottle and screaming "The psychs are coming, the psychs are coming, they're crawling all over me. Get 'em off, get 'em off." And, another Scientology rundown was thus created, the False Purpose rundown.
>> "Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message >> news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... >> > Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: >> > >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message >> > >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul >> > >> > 1996. In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and >> > >> > Scn make health claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling >> > >> > the list. >> > >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on >> > >hands and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on >> > >those, too?
>> > Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and >> > frauds.
>> > However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people who leave >> > them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS does.
>> But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other >> places- that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you >> mention are other issues which have nothing to do with healing.
Fluffy, the common element you've overlooked that runs through all of these things (scn harrassing critics, scn making health claims, etc) is that NONE of them are things scn should do.
>> One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in >> which it's being addressed.
Fine. So may I respectfully suggest you take this discussion about the validity of faith healing to alt.religion.christian.faith_healing where it will be relevant. Hubbard stated many times that the improvements which are available via dianetic and scientological processing are scientifically valid and not dependant in any way upon faith for their efficacy. And would Hubbard LIE?
> > "Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message > > news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... > > > Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: > > > >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message > > > >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul > > 1996. > > > >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make > > > >health > > > >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list. > > > >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands > > > >and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on those, too?
> > > Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and > > > frauds.
> > > However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people > > > who leave them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS > > > does.
> > But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other places- > > that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you mention are other > > issues which have nothing to do with healing. > > One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in > > which it's being addressed.
> > I'm waiting to see you take on the Christian healers next. Go on....I'm > > waaaaaiiiiitinnng....
> > C
> So - If you post on a Ford discussion group about a discovery you have > made - that several cars came off their production line with flaws that > will hurt/kill the people who buy them, my response should be "What > about Chevrolet? I'm waiting for you to take them on next. Look over > there at what they're doing!"?
> >>>>> However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul > > 1996. > >>>>> In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make > >>> health > >>>>> claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list.
> >>> Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands > >>> and institute faith healing?
> >> BECAUSE, dumbo (or should I call you nelly?),
> > If you are going to call me names you can piss off. Forget the rest of your > > post, if it starts out w/ name calling I'm not interested.
> > C
> To answer your question;
> The Christian sects say "if you have faith then a cure will happen." Scn, > Inc. coupled with claims such as "experimental proof."
Well, if it had apparently happened, wouldn't that constitute experimental proof? (which sounds almost akin to "anecdotal evidence" from where I sit). I think that it would.
> The former are unable to be determined by experiment, reason, or > indeed a court of law. In fact the plain description is "this is > sheer fantasy which you may choose to believe if you wish."
> The latter, in the sense in which an ordinary person will be > (tricked into) reading the words, suggest that established > science has seen and accepted experimental proof. Which is > a flat out lie, plainly determinable.
> Make sense? > Of course, that's Dave's version without the namecalling.
Which is why I'm replying to *you*.
> Now I could add something about the Food and Drug Administration and laws > the US has against practicing medicine without a license,
Oh come now. Someone's lying in a hospital bed , already having received medical treatment, and they are dying. And their relative is there and does the "bring back to life" assist since the guy's about to *flatline*. Obviously that hurts no one.
> but Keith Henson > is already running with that ball. Besides, the "religion" angle falls flat > if you just take the medical quotes out of Dianetics, which claims it is not > a religion, but an "applied religious philosophy". As such, it shoudl not > only be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license, but also > should not be tax exempt.
They do assists that promote healing. The church's policies state that if a person is ill or injured they are supposed to get medical treatment first. So they go and do that. And a family member or friend comes along and gives them an assist to speed recovery. That is *not* practicing medicine without a license anymore than laying on of hands by Christian healers is.
Religions address the spirit. Scn does as well. Scn is not the only religion or cult or mystic spelling bee- whatever you want to call it- that believes that aiding the spirit can assist the body it's in to speed healing.
Now, at such times that the church would tell the person not to go to the doctor because the person should receive Scn auditing and/or assists only- this would be a different story. And it has happened in the past and I've commented on the fact that it has. I wouldn't condone that at all. But that is not the same as saying "Oh look! Wow! He's dying! Maybe I can stop him from slipping away." and then doing the Bring Back to Life Assist, or giving someone who's home recuperating from surgery (as I am right now) a touch assist or a nerve assist while in no way barring that person's access to medical care.
It's not the same scenario and since it is not, that distinction needs to be made so that proper evaluation and analysis can take place.
> On Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:05:58 -0800, "Fluffygirl" <cswa...@home.com> > wrote:
> >"Robert A Crawford" <crawf...@kloognome.com> wrote in message > >news:slrn9aidqo.f87.crawford@kloognome.com... > >> Fluffygirl <cswa...@home.com> wrote: > >> >"Mike O'Connor" <m...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message > >> >> > However, I recently found an old post by Jeff Jacobsen from 22 Jul > >1996. > >> >> > In it, he was compiling a list of places where Dianetics and Scn make > >> >health > >> >> > claims. His post asked for assistance in compiling the list. > >> >Question: how is this different from the Christian sects who lay on hands > >> >and institute faith healing? Are you going to address them on those, too?
> >> Clearly there's no difference -- they're both liars and > >> frauds.
> >> However, most of those sects do not harass and attack people > >> who leave them or criticize them. At least not to the degree the CoS > >> does.
> >But I was mainly addressing the thesis here on this ng - and other places- > >that CofS should not do what it does. The other things you mention are other > >issues which have nothing to do with healing. > >One addresses the particular issue extant in the discussion or arena in > >which it's being addressed.
> >I'm waiting to see you take on the Christian healers next. Go on....I'm > >waaaaaiiiiitinnng....
