As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords,
embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba-
jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our
methods for handling Adwords.
This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so
if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The
instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs
about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need
a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added
benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a
bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
----- Original Message ----- From: <dan.th...@gmail.com> To: "SEM 2.0" <SEM2@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:19 PM Subject: [SEM2] Video on Adwords - Feedback Please
> Hi SEM2ers...
> As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords, > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba- > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our > methods for handling Adwords.
> This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
> Dan - you did an awesome job on the vid, everything from the content to the
> way you sounded. Great job!
> Debra. :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dan.th...@gmail.com>
> To: "SEM 2.0" <SEM2@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:19 PM
> Subject: [SEM2] Video on Adwords - Feedback Please
> > Hi SEM2ers...
> > As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords,
> > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba-
> > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our
> > methods for handling Adwords.
> > This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so
> > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The
> > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs
> > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> > You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need
> > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added
> > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a
> > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
> Dan - you did an awesome job on the vid, everything from the content to > the > way you sounded. Great job!
> Debra. :)
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <dan.th...@gmail.com> > To: "SEM 2.0" <SEM2@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:19 PM > Subject: [SEM2] Video on Adwords - Feedback Please
> > Hi SEM2ers...
> > As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords, > > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba- > > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our > > methods for handling Adwords.
> > This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so > > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The > > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs > > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> > You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need > > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added > > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a > > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
And I always use CTR * CR, which equals conversions per impression- if not ROAS for revenue based campaigns.
Higher bid > higher position > higher CTR > higher quality score > lower CPC for ad position
Some cool tips in there though I wasn't aware of- e.g. I hadn't tried all the MSN demographic tools- awesome!
Love the ad position ROI study.
I've found that good static headlines often work better for ROI than DKI headlines, especially with our clients (mostly lead-oriented). DKI is cool, but can be lazy.
Ahh, the multiple control ads is super clever.
And great explanation of embedded match.
Good stuff, thanks! Brian
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:19 PM, dan.th...@gmail.com <dan.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords, > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba- > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our > methods for handling Adwords.
> This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
The metric we all really want is "profit per ad impression" or "profit
per search" by keyword. You can't increase the number of searches for
a keyword - all we can do is try to extract the most profit from every
search. It's nearly impossible to do that from an agency's perspective
unless the client has a lot of confidence and competence themselves.
So far Brad's team has been the only one capable of closing the loop
with all the varying margins on the products sold, etc. and giving
back usable data for campaign management.
I keep reading stuff recommending DKI, and I've seen DKI ads win in
overall performance maybe twice in the past couple years. Glad to hear
I'm not the only one.
There are very few firms I feel confident about recommending, but I'm
adding you to my referral list.
Thanks!
Dan
On May 7, 8:00 pm, "Brian Carter" <bbcar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And I always use CTR * CR, which equals conversions per impression- if not
> ROAS for revenue based campaigns.
> Higher bid > higher position > higher CTR > higher quality score > lower CPC
> for ad position
> Some cool tips in there though I wasn't aware of- e.g. I hadn't tried all
> the MSN demographic tools- awesome!
> Love the ad position ROI study.
> I've found that good static headlines often work better for ROI than DKI
> headlines, especially with our clients (mostly lead-oriented). DKI is cool,
> but can be lazy.
> Ahh, the multiple control ads is super clever.
> And great explanation of embedded match.
> Good stuff, thanks!
> Brian
> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:19 PM, dan.th...@gmail.com <dan.th...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi SEM2ers...
> > As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords,
> > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba-
> > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our
> > methods for handling Adwords.
> > This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so
> > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The
> > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs
> > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> > You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need
> > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added
> > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a
> > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
That's an interesting metric. We're pretty diligent about getting conversion code installed and optimizing for the best KPI we can get.
We push our clients on the conversion front, and next we're looking into getting them all onboard with website optimizer (some of our clients' biggest obstacles are conversion problems on their sites) - but we have to figure out how we'll structure pricing for that portion of the biz. Conversion optimization might arguably not be a PPC skill or responsibility, but it gets frustrating when you've taken the results as far as you can with ads and keywords and adgroup structure. Unless/until we get a person whose entire job is evangelizing and implementing conversion optimization, I think it's going to fall to us.
One area I'm unhappy with is the inability to follow keywords and ads through to the sale on lead-generation campaigns. I understand SalesForce enables that, but getting our clients on a new CRM could be like pulling teeth. We're also looking at ways internally (with our own tools) to make that happen.
Thanks for putting us on your list, and for the great material. I also enjoyed your "page rank sculpting" discussion in your 2007 SEO pdf. Great stuff.
All the best, Brian
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:34 AM, dan.th...@gmail.com <dan.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The metric we all really want is "profit per ad impression" or "profit > per search" by keyword. You can't increase the number of searches for > a keyword - all we can do is try to extract the most profit from every > search. It's nearly impossible to do that from an agency's perspective > unless the client has a lot of confidence and competence themselves. > So far Brad's team has been the only one capable of closing the loop > with all the varying margins on the products sold, etc. and giving > back usable data for campaign management.
> I keep reading stuff recommending DKI, and I've seen DKI ads win in > overall performance maybe twice in the past couple years. Glad to hear > I'm not the only one.
> There are very few firms I feel confident about recommending, but I'm > adding you to my referral list.
> Thanks! > Dan
> On May 7, 8:00 pm, "Brian Carter" <bbcar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > This is cool Dan-
> > I was nodding my head at your 'crazy' ideas...
> > And I always use CTR * CR, which equals conversions per impression- if > not > > ROAS for revenue based campaigns.
> > Higher bid > higher position > higher CTR > higher quality score > lower > CPC > > for ad position
> > Some cool tips in there though I wasn't aware of- e.g. I hadn't tried all > > the MSN demographic tools- awesome!
> > Love the ad position ROI study.
> > I've found that good static headlines often work better for ROI than DKI > > headlines, especially with our clients (mostly lead-oriented). DKI is > cool, > > but can be lazy.
> > Ahh, the multiple control ads is super clever.
> > And great explanation of embedded match.
> > Good stuff, thanks! > > Brian
> > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:19 PM, dan.th...@gmail.com < > dan.th...@gmail.com> > > wrote:
> > > Hi SEM2ers...
> > > As we've had a few discussions over the past months on Adwords, > > > embedded matching, split testing, broad vs. exact, and all that jibba- > > > jabba, thought you might be interested in a video I did on one of our > > > methods for handling Adwords.
> > > This is part of a series of free content promotions for Stompernet, so > > > if you aren't interested in them you can skip ahead a bit. The > > > instructional content starts about 8 minutes in, and the "lesson" runs > > > about 45 minutes with my voice speeded up. You can watch it online.
> > > You can also download the Quicktime version (it's H264 so you do need > > > a reasonably current version of the player), which has the added > > > benefit that you can use the A/V controls to slow the playback just a > > > bit so I don't sound quite so much like a chipmunk on crack.
I was trying to explain to a client why the keywords in their report
had very low search volume. They were hoping for more, and out of
frustration, I finally said, "we can't force people to search for ____
any more than they already do!"
Which stuck with me, because the one thing a search marketer can't
directly influence is the number of searches for a given keyword. The
number of searches is finite, so all we can do is try to earn more
profit, on average, from each search.
Because almost all of our members @ Stompernet are business owners,
whose income is directly tied to the total profit they generate, this
is an especially useful way for us to look at search campaigns... so
you could say that my ideas fit in nicely there.
This has relevance beyond paid search. One of my students worked with
me last month on a meta description rewrite for her site. She lost
about 10% of the clicks from the SERPs for her highest traffic
keyword, but gained more than 15% in sales, and even more in profit
because the average sale went up.
This was a simple matter of doing as I describe in the video - making
the "offer" (description) more compelling and effective for the "right
customer." She lost traffic, but increased her "profit per search" by
nearly 20%. With more work, she can probably bring that up even more.
It gets a little trickier in a publicly traded company, because "more
total profit" might be bad for their stock if the % of profit vs
revenues doesn't meet some dipstick analyst's projection. You can make
them more money than ever and still get fired.
> Conversion optimization might arguably not be a PPC skill or responsibility,
> but it gets frustrating when you've taken the results as far as you can with
> ads and keywords and adgroup structure. Unless/until we get a person whose
> entire job is evangelizing and implementing conversion optimization, I think
> it's going to fall to us.
For an agency, yes, this is more difficult. You've either got to sell
conversion & usability work right from the start, gain buy-in after
the fact, or just never work with anyone who isn't already good at it.
I've almost always worked on a performance basis, and tried to tie
compensation to the profits. The last 'flat monthly rate' deal I did
was with Brad Fallon (they guy we talked about in the video), and only
because he didn't choke on my outrageous price. Even though he paid
and didn't flinch, as it turns out I'd have been much happier with a %
of profits.
Performance based pay is a double-edged sword, but it does help
everyone focus on the real goal.
> One area I'm unhappy with is the inability to follow keywords and ads
> through to the sale on lead-generation campaigns. I understand SalesForce
> enables that, but getting our clients on a new CRM could be like pulling
> teeth. We're also looking at ways internally (with our own tools) to make
> that happen.
This is a tough issue. Without some kind of CRM integration, all you
can really get is cost per lead. Unfortunately, "cost per lead" is
about as useful a metric as "cost per click." It looks like it's
closer to the truth, but you're still not measuring the right thing...
and generating bad leads to hit a "cost per lead" number can have huge
ripple effects. Bad leads affect the performance of a sales team,
which affects their compensation, turnover (voluntary and otherwise),
and it can be worse than doing nothing.
A small company can just switch 800 numbers and email addresses when
the visitor is from Campaign X, and keep track. My 'small time'
friends doing lead gen do that - the red phone rings and it's from
Google. :D Beyond that... it's just one of many challenges in getting
from small to big. Salesforce is actually pretty good and not terribly
expensive. (We're using it and it's by no means perfect, but it does
beat every alternative we looked at). Maybe some middleware between
Salesforce & the other system, but it's problem I'm glad I don't have
to solve.
> Thanks for putting us on your list, and for the great material. I also
> enjoyed your "page rank sculpting" discussion in your 2007 SEO pdf. Great
> stuff.
Thanks! SEOFS 2008 is coming in 7 days, and PPC Fast Start is June 1.
